We should combine all Snowmobile threads

[Snowtractor]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...eid=1009261471

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...eid=1008571962

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...geid=955250343

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ght=snowmobile

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...s=&postid=4106



Just read the old strings again and there is some interesting stuff in them. Like the loaning of the 75 snowmobiles to Canada from Britain.
Also , I have seen numbers on the MkI armoured production and MkII production, but has anyone seen any numbers on total MkIII production? I think it will be a pretty small number. Also about 10% of the MkIII's were ambulance versions , numbers on them might let us extrapolate total numbers , grossly anyway.

Sean

[Snowtractor]

SO rereading the assembled info , 5 mkI's were pulled out of the orders for Britian, Russia, and Canada and made in to MKII versions. Now if you go to the Bombardier website they go out of their way to mention the MkI and MKIII but no mention of MkIII numbers or MKII'S at all. Also past 1949 they do not mention building Penguins again though they mention the continuation of their B12 model and their new muskeg model etc.
We also see that the UK loaned Canada 75 MkI's for use in Sask. winter training and that these were "turned back in" after use. We know that the MKII were pulled out of the MKI production run because the automotive components were no longer available for the MKII production. So my point is maybe the 75 were used to make the MKIII model later on. There were 34 Penguins MkIII in Churchill all early fifties or late 40's. Where else were they used? Any reports or rumours of them in Cold lake or in the east? Given the fact that there may have been double the number of MKIII'S that only gets us up to 68 approx. More than covered by the 75 loaned back.
Any way just a thought.
Sean

[Roger Lucy]

These versions of the Armoured Snowmobile were, of course, designed to meet a British requirement for an amphibious armoured vehicle for use in tropical conditions (indeed the Army Technical Development Board's report on the Mk.II calls the project "Jungelization of the Snowmobile"). The Armoured Snowmobile was considered suitable for adaptation because it performed so well in marshy terrain, and it was believed it could be made amphibious with a few modifications. It turned out to be not quite that simple and Mk.II was essentially an interim development pending development of the fully amphibious Mudcat and Muskrat versions - once their pilots were ready, the ATDB terminated the Mk.II project on 30 November 1945. The final status report on ATDB projects - before it was would up at the end of December 1946 - state that the Mudcat, the Muskrat, (and the tracked Jeep) were undergoing performance and reliability trials in northern terrain.

Does anyone know the outcome of these trials? Did the Penguin design owe anything to the Mudcat/Muskrat development?

[Snowtractor]

Hi Roger,
the amphibious part backs up a fellow I know who used to drive them in Churchill. They were only track propelled but saved your ass if they broke throught the ice, as long as the doors were closed mind you.
Where did you find the information on the MkII's, and is there anything else? I have seen a data plate for a MkII assembled in 1947 which makes me wonder.
Sean

[Roger Lucy]

Sean
My main sources are: Volume VIII of the 1945 AEDB "Design Record of Canadian Development of Military Vehicles" - "Mud and Snow Vehicles- it equates the "jungalized SM" with the Armoured Snowmobile Mk.II and is available at the National Archives in Record Group 28, or you can get it on disc from Service Publications. The ATDB Report on Project DVA 905 "Jungalization of the Snowmobile" is held at DHH (115.41013 (D83) while ATDB minutes which can found at the archives RG 24 vol.8062 and on some of the microfilm files. Unfortunately all these sources dry up in 1945/46 - the ATDB minutes say the Jungalized (MK.II) Snowmobile project was declared complete on 30/11/1945.
Roger

[Snowtractor]

Thanks Roger,
adds another interesting bit. It does help explain the khaki Penguin, in Fred Crismon's US military tracked vehicles, pulling pack howitzers around in Fort Knox in the mud.
Sean

[Snowtractor]

Thanks to Paul Loerke another snowmobile has turned up for sale on the westerncommand.com website. A MKIII serial number 42 made in 1949.
Sean

[servicepub (RIP)]

Came across a series of photos of Armoured Snowmobiles taking part in Ex Eskimo

[Snowtractor]

...And if you look closely, there is a good old ALLIS CHALMERS M7 SNOW TRACTOR in the back corner. GREAT photo!!
Sean

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Thanks to Paul Loerke another snowmobile has turned up for sale on the westerncommand.com website. A MKIII serial number 42 made in 1949.

You mean you had not noticed the thread CMP and Penguin for sale some 18 months ago? Did the cold numb you Mr. Snowtractor?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by servicepub
Came across a series of photos of Armoured Snowmobiles taking part in Ex Eskimo

Excellent pic! I guess some day you Canucks expect me to go visit and extensively photograph the two survivors in Europe, eh?

H.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Excellent pic! I guess some day you Canucks expect me to go visit and extensively photograph the two survivors in Europe, eh?

No Hanno, steal the bastards and ship them over here!

[Snowtractor]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
You mean you had not noticed the thread CMP and Penguin for sale some 18 months ago? Did the cold numb you Mr. Snowtractor?

Ah, crap...it was the different name listed as the owner that got me ,Todd Kulbida , instead of Mike. And its not the cold currently but the poliferation of blood sucking bugs that has me down a quart or two, slows down the processor.
Sean

[Gunner]

Hi Guys:

Our collection of snow machines continues to grow (we have a Bombardier Alpine, a Muskrat, a Penguin and a Robin Nodwell as well as an M135 painted in winter camouflage (D Bty, 2 RCHA, Norway, 1982). I'm on the trail of a Flextrack and was recently given a tour of what may well be the only Ford Wapiti in existence.

All I know about the Wapiti is that it was experimental, built by Ford and just a bit bigger than a Peguin.

Can anyone add to the Wapiti story? Does anyone have any photos of it on trial or in service?

Cheers! Mike

Does this help?

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/snow_vehicles.htm

[gordon]

A little bird tells me we might be hearing Penguin Ambulance info really soon now from Canada's extremities ....

news at 11

[Snowtractor]

I have more pics but I am too tired to post after the 4000km recovery. Do the order numbers strike any cords on this MKII Ambulance?
Sean

PS: Now I really need some help finding a cadillac flat head 8...really really need one, this one is a large key fob. PLEEEEASE!!



penguin MKII
VEHICLE canadian 6013
CODE american
SERIAL 27
ORDER NO. MP 14255
DATE OF MFG. JUNE 1947


MAINTENANCE MANUAL B3 P2

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
MAINTENANCE MANUAL B3 P2

Hi Sean .
I don't have the Engine but I have the Penguin parts and maintenance manual for the armoured snowmobile which is the same except the body which is covered in the parts manual..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#38A: 300 pages + B-SNOW ARMOURED SNOWMOBILE Maintenance Manual Nov.'44

#39: 175 pages* CV-1 SNOWMOBILE, PENGUIN, Mk. 3, ILLUS. PARTS LIST. (Dec.'49)
Contact me off line if you need a set..
Comes with complimentary squirrel nut soup recipe...

[Snowtractor]

...of course you do because I have a copy of both too Got them from this easterner named Alox or Alux or something like that.
Pretty cool rig , last one before the divorce , and if Penguins are rare , then MKII'S and Ambulances are even more so. So it would be a crime to not restore it. Already took some inside pics and had a recce. Once the battery boxes for engine and radio are out , it should be very straight forward to pull the engine. I wager a two-four that it takes less than 4 hours.
NOte in this picture the front opening windows for loading stretchers.

[Snowtractor]

as the title says , note the radiator is removed. The rad is HUGE, bigger than the carrier rad even.

[Snowtractor]

notice the plugs removed Must be an Austrailian running around up in northern BC, or was that southern US they always remove the plugs?
So gents , all I want for christmas is a CADDY flathead 8.

[Snowtractor]

Notice that big aluminum lump sticking out off the engine bay is the...CLOTHES DRYER...yup. Slides in and is accessible from inside via access doors alongside the upper engine bay. It slides in from the top and the rear louvers and mufflers bolt on to the back. The clothes dryer can be removed without the rear louvers ,and mufflers I might add, being removed.
YOu can see that all the little bits are there, which reaaly helps in restoring a 60 year old vehicle as you all well know.
Sean

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
PS: Now I really need some help finding a cadillac flat head 8...really really need one, this one is a large key fob. PLEEEEASE!!

Sean, congrats again on finding and acquiring a rare Canadian military machine - again! "Last one before the divorce", eh? So you've been warned - did you have to buy her jewellery? Or did you promise her to get rid of that inferior American snow machine?

The popular M5A1 Stuart light tank had a pair of that Caddy/hydramatic combo, so an engine should not be too hard to find.

H.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Sean,
Keep your eye open for an old civilian Bombardier. A lot of them had the Caddy engine and there should be some parked in the bush somewhere. There used to be some around here but they've disappeared. That Penguin that was at Gronlid had the Caddy replaced with a 318 but I'm you'd rather keep it original.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's one for sale. Missouri might be an interesting road trip.

http://www.streetrodding.com/sr/?fus...p.parts&id=569

[Snowtractor]

...no more driving for awhile! But that engine looks like it may be the cats meow. Wonder if he would ship, any forum user live near Jopliln ?
Did you chaps notice the Vehicle codes for the MKII and MKIII are different 6013 versus 6014 and the order number for the MKII seems to be quite different.
Any questions or pics you fellow desire answered?

pic is of the front business end of the Bombardier and drivers position sans the seat , which is off to the side currently. Notice the high beam switch and the gas peddle left and right respectively.Also those two vertical bars are the tiller bars.
Sean

[Snowtractor]

and a pic under the drivers seat at the driveshaft connecting to the front drive.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
So gents , all I want for christmas is a CADDY flathead 8.

See M5A1 tank engines and tranmissions for sale & parts.

H.

[Snowtractor]

I know the Stuart had the 346 caddie , I've found one or two, but they certainly go for a premium. I emailed the chap anyway, and I certainly appreciate the heads up, keep em coming.
As for caddies in old Bombardiers , didn't know that one, though likely not get one up here as they still use working bombardiers until the wheels fall off. They commercial fish with them on Great Slave lake so hoover up all around.
Sean

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's a Caddy V8 on EBAY right now. The bidding is at $300 which seems reasonable even if it's in Ohio. Just search for Caddy v8.