MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Softskin Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-10-18, 12:14
Robin Craig's Avatar
Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Near Kingston, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,153
Default Flimsy Can / Jerry Can mounts / use

While passing a few moments the other day I heard something that while not my area of interest, I thought should be brought to the forum for discussion and detailing.

The assertion made was this, that the flimsy fuel can, was an inferior item to the superior jerry can, and that during the war the flimsy was done away with as supplies of jerry cans came available.

Supporting this thought was the change up to a bracket for the jerry can replacing the former flimsy can mounts.

Can anyone support this by way pictures or comments?
__________________
Robin Craig

Home of the Maple Leaf Adapter
2 Canadian Mk1 Ferrets
Kawasaki KLR250 CFR 95-10908 ex PPCLI
Canadair CL70 CFR 58-91588
Armstrong MT500 serial CFR 86-78530
Two Canam 250s
Land Rover S3 Commanders Caravan Carawagon 16 GN 07
Trailer Cargo 3/4 T 2WHD 38 GJ 62
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-10-18, 14:26
Ron Pier's Avatar
Ron Pier Ron Pier is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poole. UK
Posts: 1,253
Default

I can't say I've ever noticed a vehicle mount for the 'Flimsy' Usually the cans were delivered by trucks to vehicle depots etc where tanks and 2 gall cans would be topped up. I guess extra fuel flimsy's would be carried inside a vehicle.

I've heard tales that cans would puncture so easily that the average loss rate of fuel was something like 1% per 10 miles (I might not have remembered the figures correctly?)

The Jerry can, as the name implies, was a German invention, which we stole and copied after capturing a desert fuel dump in North Africa. (spoils of war) and again if I can remember correctly, no British Jerry cans are dated before 1942.

Here pics of my 1942 dated Flimsy! Ron
Attached Thumbnails
Collection 100.jpg   Collection 101.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22-10-18, 14:34
tankbarrell tankbarrell is offline
Adrian Barrell
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Suffolk, UK
Posts: 843
Default

That is a proper flimsy. There was an improved version, much thicker with a screw cap but still 4 gallon. The only vehicle racks I have seen are for the 2 gallon POL can, often incorrectly called a flimsy today.

Is that what you are referring to Robin?
__________________
Adrian Barrell
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-10-18, 14:40
Ron Pier's Avatar
Ron Pier Ron Pier is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poole. UK
Posts: 1,253
Default

Some additional pictures. It seems that some projection to the Flimsy was to put them in wooden crates. Ron
Attached Thumbnails
Girl with G3 Refuelling - Smaller.jpg   58e5cd_5f4e0a30f65e40a28d11d34850855150.jpg   58e5cd_fd60a358e593470a9b0838cefb7586c0.jpg   58e5cd_d8ae536a9144493682013976620036e8.jpg  
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22-10-18, 14:44
Ron Pier's Avatar
Ron Pier Ron Pier is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poole. UK
Posts: 1,253
Default

The other end of the row of Flimsy's left rotting in the desert. I'd like to know the story of what they are pointing to or at. Ron
Attached Thumbnails
ottobre.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22-10-18, 16:14
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Attached is a photo of 3 of the later 4 gallon cans with "normal" brass caps as well as a vent cap. These are in the collection of the RCA museum.

One has to ask: How did they get the petrol into the flimsy, then seal it? If the pull tab is soldered, one would think that operation could be dangerous around gasoline.
Attached Thumbnails
DSC01366.jpg   DSC01367.jpg  

Last edited by rob love; 22-10-18 at 17:05.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22-10-18, 16:49
Ron Pier's Avatar
Ron Pier Ron Pier is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poole. UK
Posts: 1,253
Default

I also have the heavyweight can that Adrian mentioned (1940 dated). Much thicker gauge steel and a screw cap. I don't think these were for fuel. More likely water, soup or other liquids.

Something I've pondered myself Rob. How indeed was the cap fixed on a Flimsy? I'm sure that our modern ring pulls are not soldered...are they? But modern technology doesn't compare with nearly 80 years ago. Someone did mention "electric soldering" So if the can was pre tinned and then molten solder put on the cap after the fuel was added.......Would that work? No H&S back then! Perhaps they were just pressed in? Ron
Attached Thumbnails
Collection 090.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22-10-18, 16:50
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob love View Post
One has to ask: How did they get the petrol into the flimsy, then seal it? If the pull tab is soldered, one would think that could be dangerous around gasoline.
Maybe it's crimped on?

Rob,
Your pictures of the later 4 gallon cans is interesting. I have a british-made reusable 4 gallon can, marked BMB 1939 (Briggs Motor Bodies?), of identical construction to the attached photo.

I've not seen the type in your photos before, which seem to have the same construction method as the Canadian 2 gallon cans. Are there any markings or stampings on those 4 gallon ones?

Owen.
Attached Images
 
__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVPA # 39159
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22-10-18, 17:04
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

No markings on any of them. 2 appear to be NOS while the red one has been stripped and primed.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22-10-18, 17:19
Richard Farrant's Avatar
Richard Farrant Richard Farrant is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 3,634
Default

The photo from LIFE magazine in Ron's post shows the wood boxes that carry two flimsys, are marked '100 OCT' so must have been for aircraft fuel cans.

regards, Richard
__________________
Richard

1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2
Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS
KVE President & KVE News Editor
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22-10-18, 17:22
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 307
Default

The attached may be of interest. By 'returnable', I assume they mean the 4 gallon can with the screw cap?
Attached Thumbnails
image.jpg  
__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVPA # 39159
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22-10-18, 17:28
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,426
Default British Petrol Tins

The 4-gallon petrol tins with the corner tabs were classed a non-returnable tin.

Royal Army Service Corps Training Pamphlet No. 8 - Part II Petrol Organization in the Line of Communication Area - 1943

Petrol tin factory operating company. The company consists of a headquarters and two operating sections, each section being divided into four sub-sections, three dealing respectively with the manufacture, filling, and inspection of non-returnable tins, the fourth with the maintenance of the technical equipment. The company has four Pioneer Corps sections and a fire-fighting section attached.

The function of this company is the manufacture and filling of non-returnable tins. It is designed to manufacture and fill 5,000 to 6,000 tins per shift per single line of machines and to operate two 8-hour shifts per day.

This unit would normally be located within easy reach of storage tanks and requires good communications, and facilities for acceptance of supply of materials and for easy delivery of the finished packages.

It is equipped with machinery for carrying out the following functions:-
(a) Cutting and pressing tinplate and terneplate into tins of 4-gallon capacity.
(b) Mechanical soldering of seams.
(e) Pressure testing of the containers.
(d) Spray painting and quick drying.
(e) Filling four gallons of petrol into each finished container.
(f) Automatically .. expanding in" the sealing caps.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22-10-18, 22:19
Lang Lang is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 1,650
Default

According to Philippe Leger in his excellent book "Jerrycan" ISBN 9782840482444

The British gathered German cans from the early French campaign because they realised the superiority of that container.

They sent some to USA and the Americans played with the design - one must ask why? - and US production began in 1941.

British production did not commence until 1942 despite the widely known failings and unacceptable fuel losses from the square flimseys.

Lang
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 23-10-18, 03:46
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cody, Wyoming, USA
Posts: 2,365
Default

I've got a reference somewhere to a directive from late 41/early 42 that all German fuel cans, ie jerry cans, located/recovered were to be turned over to Ordnance and not retained by individual units. It was an 8th Army directive, I think, but I'd have to locate it to be sure.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 23-10-18, 05:40
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lang View Post
According to Philippe Leger in his excellent book "Jerrycan" ISBN 9782840482444

The British gathered German cans from the early French campaign because they realised the superiority of that container.

They sent some to USA and the Americans played with the design - one must ask why? - and US production began in 1941.

British production did not commence until 1942 despite the widely known failings and unacceptable fuel losses from the square flimseys.

Lang
Sometimes a production method is inferior to available technology, or to available plants. Maybe the stamping plant making little pieces was at full capacity, but the one making one big all-encompassing piece had capacity?
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 23-10-18, 08:11
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 307
Default

More flimsies. Note the difference in colour around the cap.

Owen.
Attached Thumbnails
Flimsies.jpg  
__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVPA # 39159
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 23-10-18, 10:39
DaveBuckle's Avatar
DaveBuckle DaveBuckle is offline
Does he look like a Blitz
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Nowra Hill
Posts: 105
Default Those crazy Germans

The Germans also measured weights, volumes, distance, even heat in multiples of ten and called them things like: kilo, milli, metre, litre, etc., called a metric system or such - that'll never catch on ...
__________________
- Dave - (or Andrew)
1942 Blitz F15A
1969 Land Rover S2A FFT
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 23-10-18, 11:14
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,534
Default

There is a story about an engineer who smuggled jerry cans from Germany to Mongolia under a car, and took them to the USofA, where the idea was rejected. (the enemy item had to be inferior)
Quite a story. If I recall, Monty estimated a 25 percent loss of petrol stocks as standard, from flimsies.
The German can was fully welded. The American can had a rolled seam at the bottom, that leaked.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27-10-18, 13:44
Lauren Child Lauren Child is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 281
Default

lol, I recognise that finger in the pamphlet photo

Here are some pics I posted on facebook comparing flimsy with others.

Yep, the screw capped one is returnable, and much better made. I’d need to look the pamphlet out again to check, but I’m 99% sure it was specifically on fuel, so yes it’s for petrol.
Attached Thumbnails
A4F46298-8134-4F1B-A2BD-30F21FF22A3D.jpeg   07C953C1-10E3-472A-B237-B68926AA083F.jpeg   BA6FF6E1-B70E-4353-8411-79E34552142E.jpeg  
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 28-10-18, 18:14
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauren Child View Post
lol, I recognise that finger in the pamphlet photo
Aha! So that's where that photo came from originally. Nice collection you have there.

Yet more hijacking of this post, but any thoughts on the attached photo? I've seen Canadian 2 gallon cans with this stamping before, but only 1940 dated ones. 1941 cans are usually blank, apart from the year and broad arrow C. I suspect the cap is non-original.

Owen.
Attached Thumbnails
06.jpg   10.jpg  
__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVPA # 39159
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 26-08-21, 22:50
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,534
Default

I found this interesting item for sale on Trademe. I didnt buy it at $175.00, but saved the photos.
Attached Thumbnails
1518309987.jpg   1518310056.jpg  
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 27-08-21, 04:36
Dave Newcomb's Avatar
Dave Newcomb Dave Newcomb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: nr Portland Or
Posts: 91
Default Aircraft flimsy use

The movies/books of the '42 Doolittle raid on Tokyo, shows/tells of the B25 crews using flimsy cans in the planes, and being cautioned not to drop them in a line back to the carrier. Dave
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 31-08-21, 13:14
Keith Brooker's Avatar
Keith Brooker Keith Brooker is offline
Morris C8
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 280
Default

Petrol cans BEF 1940 and a captured Bedford with jerry cans. Click on photo to enlarge. Photos from my collection.
Attached Thumbnails
shell petrol cans.jpg   bef 1940 train petrol dump.jpg   1940 bef train petrol dump.jpg   BEF burnt out bedford with petrol cans aos 43.jpg   bedford petrol truck.jpg  

__________________
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-09-21, 00:20
motto motto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodend,Victoria,Australia
Posts: 1,068
Default

I would hazard a guess that the discolouration around the cap on all the cans in Owen Evans post #16 is some type of spray on leak detector.

David
__________________
Hell no! I'm not that old!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-09-21, 03:35
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motto View Post
I would hazard a guess that the discolouration around the cap on all the cans in Owen Evans post #16 is some type of spray on leak detector.

David
Or perhaps a sealant?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-09-21, 10:35
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,534
Default

Or is it Solder and the rest of the tin plate has rusted? Or is it paint to id. octane?
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fake flimsy petrol can David DeWeese WW2 Military History & Equipment 14 11-03-16 03:56
Is this a flimsy? Ebay? Rob Fast Auction and Classified Ad Site Heads Up 11 07-05-13 01:10
WTK: C6 Mounts for Iltis, Command and Reconnaisance & Other Mounts T. Alcorn Post-war Military Vehicles 27 19-08-10 19:02
2 Gallon Flimsy Kuno The Softskin Forum 6 08-07-10 14:28
Flimsy fuel can flex hoses/spouts 19 sets ect Dean (Ajax) For Sale Or Wanted 35 09-04-09 00:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016