Bren Gun Ammo Box

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[Jon Skagfeld]

Brad:

I'm a bit confused. The pic you showed doesn't look like the Mk I or Mk I* Box, Bren Gun, which holds 12 Bren mags.

Both of the above have metal fasteners, no web latching.

:

[Jordan Baker]

Brad

Both the workshop manual and the Instruction book list this box as holding 250 rounds. The workshop manual on pg S10 listed the box as "Magazine Spare, 250 rounds."

In the Instruciton manual its description is "250 rounds, spare magazine", in box on R.H. mudguard"

I tried fitting some mags in the box and they just don't seem to sit right in any configuration. I believe that this box was made to hold the ammunition in the cardboard cartons and not the magazines. I would also assume that there would be some kind of liner inside the metal box.

Does anyone have any original wartime cartons for size comparisons?

[horsa]

Can you shoot a photo of the inside of the box and also post back the dimensions?

First image looks very similar to the magazine chest for the Boys A/T Gun.

[Jordan Baker]

Length is 13.5"
Width is 5"
Height is 6"

If there were clips inside like the Boys box then it would only fit approx 4 magazines.

[Jordan Baker]

Here is a photo of a reprobin with a 50 round box of .303 ammo.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by horsa
First image looks very similar to the magazine chest for the Boys A/T Gun.

Boyes Mag box is the same footprint dimensions as the Bren Mag box, only taller. It holds 8 Boyes Mags.

[Tony Smith]

Wanted to buy: 8 Boyes Mags.

[Jordan Baker]

Brad

My cardboard box is more modern. It reads " 50 .303 Ball Lot 01 FNB 87" It looks like it was imported by Districorp Enterprises out of St. Laurent, Quebec

I only have it because that we use on the ranges for our re-enactment group.

If you can get me the measurements with the pictures on the war time one I will figure out the spacing in the bin.

[Jordan Baker]

I was just thinking that the bin may hold five bandoliers of ammunition for the rifles. There really is no other dedicated place on the carrier for rifle ammunition. I justed tried it out with my one bandolier and it fits really well lying flat. I could see five of them in the bin ready to go as needed. That woudl also take care of the 250 rounds specified in the manual.

[rob love]

Brad
I assume the box you got is one of John Bizal's repros?
The reason I say that is because the box is higher than the origionals I've seen. I noticed that on John's when he had his carrier on display at the MVPA convention.
I'm used to a box that is about 4" in height. I'm not sure where John got his pattern from; perhaps there was a revision to the height during production.

Has anyone else seen origional CTL1184A boxes for the .303 ammo, and what height were they?

[horsa]

The box shown is 4 1/4" long by 2 1/8" wide by 3 1/4" tall. It is one type of .303 ammo carton that was used during the war. Winchester produced lend-lease .303 as well and the cartons held 48 rounds each. They were longer and flatter.

[horsa]

Well the photo didn't link for whatever reason even though it had the name in the browse box.

http://www.visualcollector.com/misc/Ammo303.jpg

Link above gets to where I posted the photo on my own web space for reference till I figure out how to do it on the MLU forum.

[Spurrat]

I may have an answer to your question from an excellent book that I purchased today. The book is The Canadian Soldier In North-West Europe 1944-1945 by Jean Bouchery.

[horsa]

British and Candian variations of the Bren Mag chest exist but are all essentially the same and hold 12 mags. They are a different creature from the box for the carrier.

Back on the ammo cartons, my 1943 dated Winchester .303 48 round carton is the same size and the wartime 48 round carton that Brad shows photos and size for. I also have a New Zealand 48 round carton that is 1944 production but it held inspectors proofing rounds. Would seem to be a standard size carton.

The 32 round carton I mentioned earlier is another standard type commonly encountered during the war and it holds the same capacity as the Bren magazine. Might be an arrangment that fits in the metal chest.

[Jordan Baker]

Here is a picture of the bin with one bandolier in it. Im leaning more to the idea that the bin held ready rifle ammuniton rather than boxed ammunition. There were 3 rifles on the Mk1 carrier and they would have all needed amunition to be reasonably ready to go. Another factor in my thinking is that the boxed ammuniton is not adding up to the 250 rounds as specified in the manual/ stowage diagrams.

I have to say that these posts have become great discussions and im learnign so much.

Brad what type of convoy lites do i need for a mk1A carrier, thiers 3 rite? are they the hex body type? and can you tell me ware they go on the front of the UC. thanks

BIG MIKE

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by horsa
The 32 round carton I mentioned earlier is another standard type commonly encountered during the war and it holds the same capacity as the Bren magazine. Might be an arrangment that fits in the metal chest.

The Bren Mag took 30rnds, but was generally only loaded with 28 to avoid excess spring pressure causing jamming.
The 32 rnd box was sized to fit 3 boxes into a '37 patt webbing basic pouch, (or the pouch was sized for the boxes!)

[Dave Page]

Hi,
I think the bandolier idea is correct, the Daimler S/C has a bandolier box attached to the Wireless Tray. It holds 50 rounds or 1 bandolier for the rifle. Who, in battle, would have time to reload their chargers? Most things were laid out or postioned for ready deployment from or even abondonment of the vehicle.
Cheers,
Dave

[rob love]

I think the metal box would hold the rounds in their 48 size boxes. If the rounds were intended for the Bren, then the charger clips would not apply; rather loose rounds would be fed into the hopper type loading tool (stowed on top of the battery box in it's own little box).