Which gun is this?

I came across this picture it was taken in the Gun Park (Riding School) of University Avenue Armoury in Toronto. I have no idea of the date but you can see there are civilian style army vehicles in the background. Also visible are the trail legs of a much larger gun and what appears to be a large gun tactor behind the smaller guns.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Art,

I'd say it's an American 105-mm howitzer.

Regards,
Hanno

Thanks Hanno, that would make the time frame consistent with the rest of the photos in the series.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Art: the "civilian" vehicles look to be International 3 tonners, most favoured by 5 Column RCASC, at the time.

Why would a Canadian Militia artillery unit have US guns (late fifties early sixties?). If I remember correctly, 29th Field had 25 pdrs at University Armouries, while 42nd Medium had 4.5s at Falaise Barracks on the Lakeshore.

Any more memories stirring?

[XADGNR]

The howitzers are indeed US pattern 105mm's, however if I recall properly, they are designated C1 (Canadian service). Every Canadian Militia Field Artillery Regiment and Independent Battery used this gun until they were replaced by an "improved" version in the 90's.

RHC

1 Fd Regt RCA
5 RALC
2 RCHA

Jon, I believe this picture was taken in 1963 just prior to the demolition of the armoury to make way for the new court house. There appear to be 4.5s along the wall oposite the 105s.

[John McGillivray]

These are Canadian 105mm C1's which were built in Sorel Quebec in 1955 - 1957. I spent five years in 2FD RCA using them. The date and place of manufacture was stamped on the top of the breech.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

There's one as sentry guard at Canadian Forces Base Longue Pointe in eastern Montreal,along with a Sherman.Centurian.a deuce & a half ,plus,& I don't believe the waste,a jeep.If I get a chance,will check out the 105 & revert

[John McGillivray]

When I was in 2 Field , there was a sgt who had served in 2nd Medium Regt in the early sixties. They were equipped with towed 155mm howitzers and used 5 ton trucks as gun tractors. 2 Med was reduced to nil strength in 1965.
There is a 155 howitzer along with a Lynx in front of the Cote-des-Neiges armoury.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Is that the 17th Hussars Armory?If it is,I've seen that one too.

[John McGillivray]

That's the one. 2FD RCA and RCH are in the same Armory.

With this picture you only get the trail legs and breech mechanizm to work with.

[John McGillivray]

These look like the M114 155mm Howitzer.
http://www.calnan.com/swords/photos/m114gun.html

You are probably right John. Both these guns came into Canadian Army service after my time. I had seen the 105 in action in Korea but didn't recognize it all bundled up. The M114 is different from the 155s that I saw being used in Korea. The ones I saw had a much longer barrel on them

[John McGillivray]

The US had two versions of the 155 during WWII and later. The first was the 155mm howitzer while the second was the 155mm gun "Long Tom". If you count the old French 155 mounted on the M12 SP mount that would make three.

[Colin]

it looks like the "then brand new" 105mm C2 howitzer, judging by the trucks it must have been taken before the arrival of the deuces. Some of the differances from the Canadian howitzer from the US was the muzzle swell, the coat of arms on the barrel and minor differances in the trails, stiffening , welding instead of rivits. also the inards of the recoil cylinders were different. they have now been upgraded to the C3

here is the DND site http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Engl...=23&uSection=2

I knew a guy that worked the 155 as a young gunner, big heavy brutes they were a bitch to work on, although they worked well, they took to long to deploy and pack up, bad for business when counterbattery fire became quick and accurate.

The ones in the photo's do not have their spades attached to the trails, which were usually hung on the side of the trail.

[John McGillivray]

Hello Colin,

If you look closely at the gun trail closest to the camera you can see the spade mounted in its travelling position on the outside of the trail (bottom right of photo).
When I was in the artillery back in the 70's the 105s were known as C1's. My understanding is that the construction method used on the barrel of the Canadian guns was different then that used on the US guns, but I don't know the details. Also the riflings on the Canadian gun ended about two inches from the end of the barrel. On the American guns, the torque caused by the shell leaving the end of the barrel would distort the muzzle and lead to cracking. As a result of these changes the Canadian guns had a must longer barrel life then the American guns.

[Colin]

Actually I think you are right, the guns went through a refit in the early eighties, where they recieved new wheels, cut downed and removed shields, new paint job, some recoil upgrades and other new bits, I think that is when they went from the C1 to the C2.

We rolled a gun in Ft Lewis and the weapons techs told us we would lose it for good, because there was no more sight mounts in the system, the next day some of our enterprising types showed up with a new sight mount, which they used to get the gun back in action. I think I know where they liberated it from, but I ain't telling!