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Old 11-04-11, 23:15
Scott Bentley's Avatar
Scott Bentley Scott Bentley is offline
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Default 70s-80s 3 Color Camouflage Discussion

Hey Fellas,

I dread to bring up the topic of paint color again, but this one has been on my mind for some time now. Steve H (TOW M151A2 owner) and I have spent hours yacking on the phone emailing pictures back and forth trying to nail this down.

So, if I understand correctly Canadian 3 Color Cam on "B" vehicles from approx 1975 until the mono-tone 383 CARC Green in the late 80s consists of:

503-321 Flat Olive Drab
503-319 Field Green
501-310 Flat Black



The CFTO for Cam Paint shows the 503-321 as essentially the base coat, with the 503-319 and 501-310 making the pattern. There are also plenty of real world examples of the 503-321 and 503-319 being inverted as a base coat for the cam pattern.

Here is my quandry. I have borrowed some user uploaded pics of various vehicles from this Forum and "Google" to set the plot:

Which Color Green is 503-319 Field Green?
This one:

MLVW as it sits today:


M151A2:


McEwan M38A1:


Clives M38A1:


Or this one:

Iltis:


Cougar:


Photo induced color variations aside, am I the only one that notices that the 503-319 Field Green is not the same over the years of the 3 Color Cam Pattern? Did it change at some point or did it actually fade that much over the years?

The Field Green on the MLVW I posted on top is what all of the remaining 3 Color Cam Vehicles have for Field Green here in Gagetown, yet there is clearly a darker version on other vehicles.

When people are trying to color match paint for the 3 Color Cam Pattern, which shade are they trying to replicate? Top or Bottom?

Thoughts???
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Last edited by Scott Bentley; 16-04-11 at 03:55.
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  #2  
Old 12-04-11, 23:10
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chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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I would like to know as well what guys are using, specifically which brand, colour etc. I know Rob L. had posted on this somewhere here on MLU forum but I think maybe the actual details of make etc were missing...
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1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC
1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR
1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer
1943 Converto Airborne Trailer
1983 M1009 CUCV

RT-524, PRC-77s,
and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and.......

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  #3  
Old 12-04-11, 23:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris vickery View Post
I would like to know as well what guys are using, specifically which brand, colour etc. I know Rob L. had posted on this somewhere here on MLU forum but I think maybe the actual details of make etc were missing...
34079 Forest Green (US Color) is a very close match to the bottom 3 pics, but is nothing like the top ones. It's available from most of the US Dealers, but Army Jeep Parts will actually ship it to Canada.

What I'm really trying to figure out is did the color formulation actually change, or were there two completely different numbers for Field Green. Stranger yet, is that out this way, it seems that the "top" Field Green was actually used as the base coat for the Cam Pattern out here in Gagetown. The topic comes up every so often and the solution never really gets resolved. I'm hoping some folks will chime in so we can put the Field Green, Pea Green, Ugly Green issue to bed.

What is known with certainty is that:

Tremclad Flat Black will work in place of 501-310 Flat Black
Brian Asbury "BCA" sells 503-321
Gillespie 34079 will stand in nicely for the bottom version of the Field Green
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Old 13-04-11, 00:17
rob love rob love is offline
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I have been using an original can of the IRR flat green made by pittsburg paint around 1990. The color is basically the same as your bottom photos. The IRR did tend to fade pretty good. The black would turn to grey, and the two greens would almost turn to the same color. The Iltis used a different form of paint if I recall, and weathered the elements quite well, whereas I always found the IRR to be very porous. It did not seem to provide a good seal against the elements.
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Old 13-04-11, 00:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob love View Post
I have been using an original can of the IRR flat green made by pittsburg paint around 1990. The color is basically the same as your bottom photos. The IRR did tend to fade pretty good. The black would turn to grey, and the two greens would almost turn to the same color. The Iltis used a different form of paint if I recall, and weathered the elements quite well, whereas I always found the IRR to be very porous. It did not seem to provide a good seal against the elements.
Whats your opinion/thoughts on the top color Rob? Do you think it was originally the same but just faded out to its current form?
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Old 13-04-11, 15:38
rob love rob love is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armybuck041 View Post
Whats your opinion/thoughts on the top color Rob? Do you think it was originally the same but just faded out to its current form?
Yep. Even the best of hardened glossy paints will fade after almost 30 years, especially when stored outdoors, washed with steam cleaners and made parade ready with engine oils.

I have the original paint color chips book for the CGSB colors at home. It dates way way back. I don't think there was ever a change in the individual color specs on these, but there would have been variation in how they were painted, what reducers were used, and if any hardeners were added. Also, how the paint was stored, how many times it was frozen, and how old it was. Most MLVWs got partial or complete paint jobs during the early 90s refurb program. It was all IRR paint at that point, and the work was done at various civilian contractors.
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