Humber FV1600

[waltz]

well i was doing just over 40 mph and the rear one was wobbling i little as it was carrying more weight should of put it in the middle

[lynx42]

For those overseas from OZ, we call our trailers Humber Trailers as thats what they were to be towed by. Most here were built by Corio Air Engineers P/L of Belmont Vic. near Geelong. The square guards are an Auzzie thing. A cheap replacement for the lovely curved lines of the pommie ones. My trailer has the holes for the curved guards but has the Auzzie square ones.
Rick

[alain taou]

hello. I seek information onthe FV 1601 Humber 1 ton of Berlin field squadron. Thank you or your answer

[Ryan]

Here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Dinky-1-Ton-A...QQcmdZViewItem

No connections.

[Ryan]

It's a copy though.
No connections.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Humber-1-Ton-...QQcmdZViewItem

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Ryan, you have been casting your net widely.
Did see this, but am assuming that Tim will have more copies available when I finally get a Humber.
Rich

[Humber-One-Ton Tom]

This is on ebay.co.uk right now - Item number: 350043964384 -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=350043964384

Seems to be some kind of press release or brief news article on the prototype Humber truck for the USA, dated April 1951 - also includes a photo of what looks to be an FV1604 radio truck with the body chopped, sitting in a scrapyard in the 1960s or 1970s. The item is in USA but they will ship anywhere -
The picture below has most of the info anyway, but I would love to know where the photo was taken and when.
I was tempted, but I reckon I might be able to buy a missing piece for my old truck for the same price...

[Phil Waterman]

In the picture just posted, reading the caption it mentions secondary suspension, wonder what is secondary suspensions?

Could it be springs in the seat cushions or something more exotic?

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

This pic has been kicking around Epay for a while, as for the secondary suspension, perhaps the resiliantly mounted diff assemblies? Or perhaps the air in the tyres, so that would add up to quadruple suspension? (Certainly more more than a CMP, last time I checked mine did'nt have any at all)
Rich.

[Humber-One-Ton Tom]

Interesting! - I had missed this entirely when I skim-read the text so did not pick up on it.
Funny you mention tyres....
I was intrigued so I went straight to an interesting book I have...Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Regulations, Wheeled Vehicles N252, Technical Handbook - Technical Description, Issue 3, 31 May 1966, Distribution - class 131 code 2 - Truck, 1 Ton, GS Cargo, 4x4, Humber MK1, etc. etc.
This describes every component of the vehicle in great detail down to type of iron used for castings etc.
Regarding secondary suspension:
The shock received by the road wheel is partially absorbed by the tyre but the greater part of the shock is absorbed by the torsional resilience of the torsion bar. Since, however, the torsion bar is not a perfect spring, it does not absorb the full shock and a certain upward movement of the chassis fram is caused at this point. (which means you do actually notice the bump !)When the shock is of such magnitude that the upper link meets the bump buffer, the action of the compressed buffer expanding in the steel cup progressively increases the resistance and absorbs part of the shock
So it is really the rubber cones in cups - (more than just bump-stops), but the tyres are stated as a factor too. This is not the same on all vehicles - recently changed the bump-stops on my Jeep Cherokee and they were hard blocks with no 'cup' - stop the axle smashing into the chassis but no more than that...
Re. the shock absorbers, the manual states that these are dual action (unlike lever-arm shocks) because the 'torsion bars do not have inherent damping effect of leaf springs'.
A lot of this stuff would be taken for granted on a more modern vehicle but on a truck from 1950 all this was a big deal, and very different to the cart springs still widely in use then and still used on Landrovers up to the '80s!
Regards,
Tom
Portsmouth, UK

[Humber-One-Ton Tom]

Hi - I hope this is OK, but I heard via the other forum that after a clear-out, Clive had a radiator and gearbox available very reasonably priced only about 35 miles from me. I even saw a picture, so I am hopping with excitement. My truck (02BK09) has no Rad at all and is missing the whole top plate/selector mechanism from the gearbox - it has been open for ages so probably shot anyway! - so these would get me closer to rolling under my own steam.
I messaged via the site but not sure if it got through or not -
I know that these may be sold already, but there was a possibility that if nobody wanted them the scrapman would get them!!
So I thought I would post on here.

Hi Clive, if these bits are still available I would jump in my car right now!

I sometimes don't read this forum for a few weeks at a time...so if anyone else is in touch with Clive please let him know that someone wants the stuff if it is still available. I can live with someone else having it but missing it to scrap would keep me awake at night (heck, I'm awake now - it's past midnight! I'm off to bed.)
Regards,
Tom
Portsmouth, UK
07879 422701
023 92372 722
tom1087@hotmail.com

[da bomb]

I have a spare humber chassis complete with most of the drivetrain/running gear, except the engine, which is FUBAR! i have a G.S. truck radiator complete and in very very good condition if you are interested.
Please P.M. me if you still require one, or if you have any other bits and bobs you need.

I am holding on to alot of the mechanical stuff like the box, as a spare for my Pig, although i am led to believe that they are slightly different ratio.

[fv1620]

Well I'm here, but I've tried to log on a few times during this month & the site seemed to be down. HMVF is quite easy to view, join & log into. Most stuff has gone. I priced it low, so that people who didn't need the stuff would buy it on the basis "Well for that price I better buy it".

All I've got left is an air filter. There is a chassis with just 3 torsion bars & front & rear axle with the TF/box. Someone was meant to be having it but hasn't shifted it yet.

[Humber-One-Ton Tom]

Such is life. At least the stuff has all found homes.
You were right about the prices. Certainly priced to sell - probably just a bit less than the scrapman would have given you for the rad...
Funny enough, I have an excellent air filter....and a good chassis too.
Just out of interest - is the chassis what's left of you own rusty 1-ton?

Never mind. I have plenty to be getting on with and it will be some time before I need those parts.

Regards,
Tom
Portsmouth,
UK

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Been chasing a Humber since I first saw one about 11 years ago, missed out on a couple, and they are not that common in Oz, Salesman Bob put me on to a possibility in Adelaide back in August, and followed a protracted negotiation, which included it being withdrawn from sale after a mutually acceptable price had been reached. However I eventually purchased the "Best Humber in Australia", complete with trailer, spare motor and some odds and ends.
Unfortunatley none of the bigger carriers where interested in bringing the trailer or spares over, and the local chaps price went up everytime I spoke to him. Bob thought he might be able to bring it over for me, but when he ran out of time I decided to fly over and drive it back (850 kms) even though the brakes where a bit "ordinary".
Bob picked me up at the airport and took me way up into the Adelaide Hills, along narrow, windy and steep roads.
Spent 4 hours or so getting tail lights working on the trailer, checking fluids etc and headed of on my own late in the afternoon.
Hill 2 saw a boiling raditor at the top, and coming down the other side into an intersection I hit the brakes to find the peddle frozen. Panic setting in, Kicked the peddle with both feet as hard as possible, all 4 wheels then locked. Managed to drive of the side of the road and that was that, all brakes now seized on.
Removed a front wheel, couldn't take the hub off, so rang the previous owner, who had no idea either as he had never looked at the brakes...
He did however turn up to have a look, followed thankfully by Bob shortly after. The Humber is blessed with a unique set up which see's the wheel cylinder actually bolted to the outside of the wheel hub, so once removed the wheel would turn freely. By now it was well and truly dark, cold, and with the odd bit of rain. As the truck had next to no fuel in it a jerrycan run to the nearest servo was made, and with all the wheel cylinders hanging free we set of in low gear for Bobs Shed, pilot vehicle in front signiiling when a steep descent was about to happen.
I think it could be said to be an interesting drive.....I think 30 or so kms of hills, boiling up, crawling down the steep ones. Fortunatley traffic was light after 11.00
When next staying in downtown Macclesfield I highly recomend Ada's Midnight Bolognese, with the house red ( 5 star rating).
A days work saw the front brakes oppertating to some degree, but with the boiling issues, a miss in the engine and the distance to be travelled I Chickened out of the rest of the road trip, convincing Bob and Ada that a Humber and trailer would make lovely lawn ornaments until something can be arranged next year..... or the year after....or...
But wait, there's more!
Instead of running home with the tail between my legs, checked in with work to see if there was anything happening in Adelaide, did 2 14 hour days on Installations, a third in Melbourne on the way home, went into work and stuck my typing finger between 2 gears, removing the top joint and earning 2 nights in hospital.
Roll on 2009!
Before closing,
A public and heartfelt thankyou to Bob and Ada, specially as this was the first time I had met them. Sometimes words are not enough.
Rich.

[Keith Webb]

I can vouch for the wonderful hospitality at Bob and Ada's although I missed the midnight bolognese but we did sample some wine.

What a well-told and classic recovery story - looking forward (as you must be) to the successful final installment.

Sorry to hear about your injury Richard.

[lynx42]

Well done Rich,
All things come to those who wait.
I guess you'll need some folding stuff pretty soon. Might help get it home.
Regards and Merry Christmas.
Rick

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hey Rick,
Have you noticed if the chassis plate behind Front pass side wheel shows your truck as being a Commer?
Mine was registered as a Commer 1 Ton Utility.
I know that they were all Rootes Group, but must have been a naming change somewhere, can't remember this being mentioned anywhere.
Any idea how many served in Aus? Full production was only about 3700.
Rich

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Hey Rick,
Have you noticed if the chassis plate behind Front pass side wheel shows your truck as being a Commer?
Mine was registered as a Commer 1 Ton Utility.
I know that they were all Rootes Group, but must have been a naming change somewhere, can't remember this being mentioned anywhere.
Any idea how many served in Aus? Full production was only about 3700.
Rich

Rich,

The man who knows a bit about the Commer badged FV1600 vehicles is Clive Elliott, and as he gets on here at times, he will know more. But it seems it was only those that were shipped to Australia that were so named. This sort of thing is not unusual in vehicle exports, sometimes a more well known name is used. For instance, Humber would have been more associated with cars at the time, where as Commer was one of Rootes truck brands. In fact they were not built by Humber, and may only have carried that name because of the reputation gained from Humber 4x4 vehicles during the war.

[Mike Kelly]

Richard ,

Chasing Jeeps back in 1976... I came across a very original and unmolested example of those Humbers ..It was only a stone throw away from our MLU member Robert Pearce: it may still be there .
Mike

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Richard F
The badging of export only trucks as Commers may be why it is not mentioned in either of the books I have on this series. Think Australia was the only country they were exported to anyway.

Mike
is it not always the way that when you finally find something to buy, others come out of the woodwork.....Must have not dropped enough hints here over the last few years!
Mind you, 32 years on the Humber may not be in unmolested condition anymore. I will be happy to get just one home.
Rich.

[lynx42]

Yes Rich,
Mine is a Commer as well. Someone mentioned it about 18 months ago on MLU but I don't remember who.
Nice to see one without a lot of rust. Mine has a fair bit but not beyond repair. Only 22,000 miles on the clock as well.
Need a set of hood bows, if anyone knows of any.
Thanks Rick.

BTW. MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL.

[S LATHERON]

seasons greetings.
I guess the frozen brake could be a combination of things.
1]Older Brake fluid absorb water and expands, looses its viscosity and ability to operate the system properly and causes corrosion inside wheel cylinders in time
2] have you checked the adjustment on the master cylinder. If the push rod that pushes the MASTER piston forwards has stuck in the on position, fluid is trapped in all the wheel cylinders. Locking all the brakes in the on position.
3] The answer to the above may be in the linkage, Or a weak or worn return spring at the master cylinder or seized pivots in linkage due to limited use.
4] I know other owners of vintage vehicles that reset the brake shoes so that they have to travel further inside the drums before making contact with the drum face. Although it means the shoes have further to travel on the first stroke of the brake pedal but this gives better working clearances and less risk of shoes sticking to the drums while parked up for storage.Also as the brake pressure is released the shoes are less likely to bind and cause heat build up
5]As little as a lack of a clean breather hole in the top of the brake master Cylinder resevoir can be fatal.
I had a similar experience with a 1958 military Ex RN land rover station wagon. Drove round a long curve at 50 mph only to find traffic stopped ahead of me. I jumped on brakes and took TO LONG to stop! Finally stopped only when my heart was in my mouth, approx 6 inches off trunk of car in front. On investigation after a rather nervous and slow drive into a side road. i found a hard layer of mud set on top of the vent hole that lets air into the header tank of the brake system. As you apply the brakes the fluid is forced into the pipes, however if air cannot enter to replace the fluid used then there is no way the brakes will work properley as the lack of air causes a vacuum inside the system reducing effieciency. A bristle from a wire brush restores ventilation in seconds.
I hope that you are able to collect your new "Commer" soon and give it the use and TLC it deserves.
PS, In 1974 i joined a chrysler car dealer ship to sell the commercial vehicle range in the north east of the UK, Commer, carrier [Bantam] then the Dodge range of trucks. Humbers were cars only in uk then.
Regards Stephen
F60S LAAT 1944

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi Stephen,
Ahhh Land Rover Brakes, that would be one of those oxymorons. Got used to the SII only having brakes on the second push.....
In this case the brake fluid looked like runny brown custard, with large amounts of crud in the cylinders.
The single hydraulic piston sits in a vertical position which helps contamination and crud cement it in place.
Although all four cylinder pistons went from frozen closed, to jammed open with a desperate kick, we were unable to move a single piston hydraulically in the workshop next day. That and the aching thigh muscles showed how heavy my emergency braking had been.
Interesting too is the design that sees the single piston in a "blind" cylinder. Can't knock out through the other end, near impossible to pull out unless the cylinder is in good working condition.
The handbrake system runs a cable to each of these wheel cylinders, but as it actuates the same piston, was also out of action.
thanks for the comments
Rich

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

The single hydraulic piston sits in a vertical position which helps contamination and crud cement it in place.

Interesting too is the design that sees the single piston in a "blind" cylinder. Can't knock out through the other end, near impossible to pull out unless the cylider is in good working condition.

Rich,

These are the same wheel cylinders as a Ferret. They are alloy and hence why corrosion can take place, especially if the gasket between backplate and cylinder is not in place or damaged, then water can easily enter. as with all brake systems, if neglected and not checked they can suffer. Once you have the cylinders off the vehicles, clean up the bore that is visible then drop them in a pot of boiling water, for a few minutes, take out, holding it with a leather glove and thump the open end down on a block of wood. This usually frees them, might take several goes at heating and thumping. You could also rig an airline on the pipe connection, but stuff a rag in the open end to save injury.

[lynx42]

This is great info. I've got the same problem, no brakes. So I'm learning without doing anything. I'll look at mine in a month or so.

A funny little aside,
When I went to look at mine before buying it, I was told that it ran like a swiss watch. As smooth as anything. Well.. we started it and it had a bad, bad knock. This knock increased with the increase in engine revs. The owner couldn't beleive it, he said the usual, "Never heard that before" I took that a a sales pitch. Anyway I negotiated down quite a bit as it sounded like a full engine rebuild was needed.
I had the Humber/Commer backloaded to my place on a tiltbed tray truck. After it was unloaded I started it and there was no sign of any knock. It ran as sweet as anything. This was a worry as an intermittant knock is worse than a constant knock.

With the engine at idle I checked out the other controls and all but the brakes worked ok. Then I engaged the tyre pump compressor and low and behold there was that knock again. the tyre pump clattering away. Faster with more revs and slower without. Just like up on that NSW farm.

So who was a luck boy then??

Still the brakes and gaiters are next.
Regards Rick

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Richard F.
Wondered about those special gaskets between the cylinder and backplate, disintegrated when the cylinder was removed, any idea what they were made of originally?
We tried a hot air gun to heat and expand the cylinder, but with little effect, had not thought of boiliing water, but sounds like it will be worthwhile.... of course having the hand brake cable attached the whole time is a little restricting. Did find that part of the trick is to keep the piston perfectly straight in the bore, once it gets cockeyed it jams, and the further it is out, the harder it is to keep true.
Anymore tips??

Rick.
Bob Moseley has some pics of the cylinder if you want to see what you are in for.
Have you tried Rus. Altman at Stawell for hood bows? He has a couple of Humbers amongst all his Champ bits. Could be a good spot to start for the gaiters, I assume yours are hanging of in bits like mine. He does make the ones for Champs, but these are smaller, and you need twice as many. The Bandiana Humber, that Russell did up has, gaiters made out of canvas, this maybe because:
You can put them on without removing the entire wheel station, or
As a museum peice will not move much, or
Impossible to get the proper ones.

Just thinking, ripstop canvas with a velcro seam???? Easy to put on/replace and I would imagine a lot cheaper...
Or would these be the same as Ferret gaiters?
Just remember that we need two sets!
Woner if your Humber was the one that Mike Kelly mentioned...
Rich.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Rich - Ada appreciates your comments but says SSHHHH!!, keep it quiet otherwise everybody will want some.

To say it was an "interesting drive" is an understatement. I was only a pilot vehicle and I was "packing it".

I have attached two images of this convoluted brake system. The first one depicts the complete cylinder whilst the second one depicts the cylinder with the brake actuating levers and piston removed. The other interesting thing was that the brake shoe can simply be removed by pulling it out as it is only attached by a spring plate for want of a better description. However you can have this system on your own.

BTW, canopy stowed away secure as are all the stores. Just need to get a good cover to protect that fine paintwork.

Bob

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Richard F.
Wondered about those special gaskets between the cylinder and backplate, disintegrated when the cylinder was removed, any idea what they were made of originally?

.... of course having the hand brake cable attached the whole time is a little restricting. Did find that part of the trick is to keep the piston perfectly straight in the bore, once it gets cockeyed it jams,

Anymore tips??

Rich,

Will PM you.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi Bob,
just in time with those pics, nearly ready to see the cylinders again. Thanks for packing everything away, still that Humber will be a good conversation starter at any BBQ's.
All the best to the three of you for the new year.
Rich