new carrier owner

[Rob Dyba]

hello all, just a quick hello from a new carrier owner. i have started restoring a aussie lp2 carrier in brisbane that i found in central australia reciently so i hope to be able to assist where i can & be assisted where needed. when i started looking for a "tank" i had no one to ask advice, did not know this site existed & my mates thought i was daft. the last few months have been hectic travelling 2,000km into the australian desert to drag 4 tonne of what some would call scrap back up to brisbane involving 3 trucks, a tilt tray with a weak cable & a big yellow forklift......but it looked so cute, i just could not let it rust away......look forward to your response...

rob

[Nigel Watson]

Well done Rob. Yet another carrier saved to see another day! Pictures at some time would be good to see.

Over here a friend has also just found an LP2 carrier in a barn and is doing it up I think for this season. That will be two here in UK I know about anyway.

Keep us posted

Nigel

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Rob

I've been restoring a Carrier for the last 18 months for the South Australian Military Vehicle Museum. I have all the manuals, hints, tips and a network of Aussie Carrier owners. Could you provide me with its hull number, year and place of manufacture as I maintain a database of Aussie Carriers. Any help you need, just yell out.

You are not alone.

Bob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Nigel

The 2 LP2 Carriers you know about in the UK, what nationality are they, British, Aussie or something else? If they happen to be Aussie, as with my request to Rob, can I have details?

Thanks - Bob

[Rob Dyba]

no worries bob, i will get the hull number this week-end & let you know. it is a lp2 with side stowage on the hull and i suspect is one of the melbourne metro vehicles but by the sounds of it the numbers will tell for sure. would you know- are the front idler wheels the same as the road wheels, i have spare front bogie assy,s but no front idlers- are they the same with just a different (larger) inner bearing???

rob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Rob

You have 3 sets of wheels on a Carrier.

1) Bogie wheels ( you call them road wheels)
2) Idler wheels - they are the 2 small wheels, one either side, that take up the track tension.
3) Track adjuster wheels (you call them idler wheels). If you don't have these wheels I suspect you may not have the track adjuster brackets either.

The bogie wheel and track adjuster wheel have the same part number of U72. In my 1943 Spare Parts Manual under Modifications it states "Owing to the scarcity of rubber, future production of track adjuster and idler wheels will be all metal, the rubber tyre being discontinued.The rubber-tyred bogie wheel can replace tha all-metal track adjuster wheel but in no circumstances must the steel-tyred track adjuster be used as a bogie wheel". The modifications also give carrier numbers that were fitted with plain bearings as opposed to ball bearings, again due to supply shortages.

Bob

[Nigel Watson]

Bob, on the, lets call them British pattern, carriers, Bren to Universal the track adjuster wheel had rubber on it which was not only narrower but also not as thick as the road wheels. This was to allow the track lugs to meet and presumably slide against the metal rim of the idler as the gradual turn was made without taking out chunks of rubber. Was this the same on the Australian pattern carriers?

Nigel

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Nigel

Good question. Not knowing whether our carrier has the original track adjuster wheels on it taking a measurement could give a false conclusion. All I can go by is what the manual stated about the ability to interchange as stated in my last post. I'll still measure though next time I'm with the carrier. What I do know for certain is that the British carrier track is narrower between the track horns by at least one inch.

Re. the name, actually all my manuals describe it as Carrier Machine Gun. Bren Gun Carrier just became one of those nicknames. Actually a loose rule applied to these carriers with regard to weaponary. Carriers that went overseas with the Australian Imperial Forces were generally armed with a Bren Gun up front and a Lewis on the engine cowling. Carriers that stayed in Australia with the Australian Military Forces were generally armed with the Vickers up front with again a Lewis on the engine cowling. Then again there were a few Hotchkiss machine guns and Boys anti-tank guns. But I reckon the ultimate are those armed with the 50 cals as seen on a post here.

Bob

[Rob Dyba]

here are the numbers bob, found on the rear plate where the diff protudes into the engine compartment. MGO1127 id plate is missing from this hull so this is the only identifier. in regards to the front track adjuster wheels, i have the brackets that mount the stub axle to the hull, the stubs for the "track tention adjusting wheels" have a step in them unlike the "bogie" or road wheels so simply removing them from the leading or trailing bogie's & attempting to fit them will not work. the casting of this wheel does not allow for a larger size inner bearing to be fitted to suit the increse in stub axle diameter . (the bogie wheels all have a straight pin that uses the same bearing on both sides of the wheel. so either the front track adjusting wheel is a different casting or perhaps it used plain bearings instead of rollers. does anyone's parts manual list a different bearing part number for the front adjusting wheel?????
Rob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Rob - pulled one of these buggers off the carrier today, struggle, strugglesweat, sweat to try and get some parts numbers for you. As ours were new everything was sealed up and would have been a major exercise to dissemble. So back to the manuals. They came with 2 types of bearings, ball and later plain due to shortages during the war. My parts manual only gives carrier part numbers and not the Ford numbers. However my Workshop and Maintenance Manual elaborated a bit. The track adjuster wheels are interchangeable with the bogie wheels after removal of the distance pieces necessary to accomodate the tapered stub front axles and the substitution of the distance pieces normally fitted to the bogie wheels. The manuals also tend to confuse the correct name for these wheels describing them as "track tension adjusting wheels", "track adjuster wheels" and the term idler is also used but this is also used for the small idler wheel. As I stated earlier I have several manuals, if you want photocopies let me know.

Nigel - the width of rubber on the bogies and track adjuster wheels is the same - 3".

[Nigel Watson]

Bob thanks for that. It was really the depth of rubber on the wheels that is different on the British/Canadian carriers and was why I wondered if your ones were the same.

[Rob Dyba]

bob, your enthusiasm is contagious- it's 9.30 at night, i am not long home from work & the missus has BANNED me from going out to the shed & dissasembling the bearings from the bogie wheel to see if removing the bearing spacer will fix the problem. i will say no more till i have had a bang around & will let you know the results. i'll borrow a digital camera this week-end & give you all a look at the project...........
rob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Nigel & Rob

Firstly Rob - you now have a terminal case of "Carrier Fever" and it is contagious. There is no known cure other than taking certain medication. In my case it was becoming the part owner of an armoured car and full owner of a 1945 Ford Blitz Ambulance. With these I could partially forget the carrier.

Secondly Nigel - without measuring the rubber depth, the fact the manual states the wheels are interchangeable must mean they are identical in all aspects. Even though our carriers were copies of a British model, Australia went on to develop the best carriers in the world.

And to everyone, the worst fever is this forum. Ada and I have just returned from the annual Corowa, NSW rally. We only drove 1020kms (@637 miles) today to get home. Did the same Wednesday to get there. And do I go to bed to rest, no I'm reading buckets of posts I have missed since Wednesday.

Bob

[Rob Dyba]

wheels interchanged- to make it work i have replaced the roller bearings with tapered roller bearings, made a new seal holder for the inside seal & deleted the bearing spacer- adjustment is by tightening up the hub nut until there is no play & then tighten until the next split pin hole is uncovered. fit a split pin & viola- front wheel. next challenge- to make the brake/steer rods end yokes........

rob

[Lynn Eades]

Hi! Guys,
Im new to this techno stuff(posting stuff on the forum) But on this carrier track gear, I can add a bit. English,and canadian carriers run the same stuff(narrow or 2 1/2") and the aussie stuff is wider at 3" The very few parts that are common to the two sorts are the bearings inthe wheels, and for a given type of carrier,the wheels are inter changable except that the front adjustable wheel onthe Eng. Can. carriers have thinner (lower profile) rubber on them . The inner bearing is the same O.D. but its bore is bigger. Most other things Are not inter changeable due to the English/ Canadian carriers being built using B.S.F. fasteners ,and the Aussie carriers being mostly put together with U.N.F.
A bit about me. Im a "Kiwi" or New Zealander. We had here during the war both English and Canadian Carriers, as well N.Z. built about 800 odd Aussie pattern carriers (L.P.2 and 2a) prior to which we built 40 L.P.1 carriers copied from an English Bren but with Hydraulic brakes. Hope this helps