rivet forming tools ?

RichardT10829 · #1 01-01-10, 12:09

anyone know where i can get them ? I have been told how to make them but wondered if they could be bought ? They would be used on 3/8ths dome head rivets.

Cheers

Richie

gary_bath_jr · #2 01-01-10, 17:51

I would like to knw as well, more original and all that.

Gary

BTW Richard, pics of my carrier have been posted here, you also posted some. If you still need some for a reference to the ones Chris is selliing let me know and I will post them again.

Grant Bowker · #3 01-01-10, 18:04

Look at aviation tool supply houses. Most of their rivet toools are smaller than we need but they may go large enough. Also check Mac's Auto (sellers of Ford parts) they list some rivet sets. Remember that the rivet gun is usually on the factory formed head and the bucking bar does the field formed head. In other words, for a rivet that is domed, round or whatever at each end, the rivet set in the hammer and the face of the bucking bar should have the same shape depression.

rnixartillery · #4 01-01-10, 18:37

Why not get a couple turned up !,we made a couple from air chisles.

Rob..................rnixartillery.

T Creighton · #5 01-01-10, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

anyone know where i can get them ? I have been told how to make them but wondered if they could be bought ? They would be used on 3/8ths dome head rivets.

Cheers

Richie

Have a look at the Bigflats Rivet Co's website http://www.bigflatsrivet.com/index.html[

I bought 150 3/8 rivets from them for my truck frame from them. They arrived in about 10 days and I am on the other side of the world.
They now supply tools etc which I wish they had when I did my rivets. I had to make my own bucking bars and sets.
Great people to deal with.
Cheers,
Terry

tankbarrell · #6 02-01-10, 09:29

Be careful to check modern head sizes against original.

We have recently finished rivetting new floors and sponsons in a Ram tank and the modern rivet head on a 3/4" dia rivet is smaller than that used during the war.

I purchased an original 1945 dated pneumatic hammer and sets from the USA and these tools suit the modern rivets perfectly but they are a little small in the head. Not a problem if you do not mix old and new!

I did make my own sets for 1/2" and 3/8" out of EN24T and they worked a treat. These can of course be made to suit any original head size.

RichardT10829 · #7 02-01-10, 10:29

I had a chat with Martyn regarding making my own forms, i believe he used Moyle point chisels cut down and heated up and hammered over a ball bearing to create a cup. I was going to do similar but wondered if i harden a rivet first by heating it up then quenching in oil, let it cool and use it as a form. then heat the bar up form the end over the hardened rivet and again quench the bar in the oil..... as i say i was wondering if they could be puchased. all my top armour will be done so no worries about mix and match, plus all the rivets i have got are imperial the supplier can even do them countersunk all be it i will be using normal dome heads unless i find a way to countersink all my holes 45 deg with sufficient depth.

cheers guys i will keep you all posted on this front.

tankbarrell · #8 02-01-10, 18:34

You won't harden a rivet using the method you describe unless it is a high carbon rivet. Most rivets are mild steel and cannot be hardened to any great extent.

I have had success with the ball bearing method or using a ball end slot drill.

Michael Hughes · #9 02-01-10, 23:43

You will find it difficult to harden a rivet due to the stock they are made from.
If you keep the rivet head cold i.e. quenching as you go you should have no problems making the tools. The trick is to keep the tool steel red hot when forming it over the rivet.
Then there is a trick to hardening the tools as you need to quench at the correct temp for the tool steel you are using. You can easily make it too brittle.
If you contact a local Blacksmith Guild they should be able to help you in making the tools.

RichardT10829 · #10 03-01-10, 12:20

thats great thanks Michael. I know Martyn had issues with the tool wearing out quickly but i dont believe he had re hardened it after heating. just saves me re forming the tool again. I will make enquirie cheers gang.

Ron Pier · #11 04-01-10, 10:15

I am interested in the comments made about the hardening of rivets. I'm no engineer!! When I restored my 2 pounder field gun I had to remove a few rivets from the shield. These were small dome head and countersunk. I could not drill them with even the highest quality drill bits. I could not grind the heads off as they are countersunk. The only way I could remove them was to cut the dome off and heat them with an acetylene torch till they were red hot and drive them out with a slim drift. Does this mean they were of a different steel that hardens when hot.

Ron

tankbarrell · #12 04-01-10, 14:18

Ron, it's possible that AT gun shields used high carbon rivets as these would harden to a degree when formed.

We had no problem drilling out the Ram tank hull rivets.

RichardT10829 · #13 04-01-10, 19:57

i have had similar issues with my carrier rivets specifiaclly the gunners side rear compartment armour. which is countersunk on both sides. i used a slitting disc to take the heads off then as you say Ron heated up the remains and punched them out.

malcolm erik bogaert · #14 04-01-10, 20:30

Richard why not give Denny Thomson a ring...he restored a carrier and will probably be able to lend you the required tools for same Happy new year...malcolm in the icy snow bound wastes of North-Northumberland

Ron Pier · #15 04-01-10, 21:37

Thanks for the reply gents. You learn something every day

Ron

martyn · #16 05-01-10, 14:53

my tooling method worked for doing one carrier just that we had to redo the cups and modify them to get the perfect formed rivet head but after doing one carrier they were starting to crack around the cup even after re hardening them mind you they do take a good pounding so to speek.

cantankrs · #17 05-01-10, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

We had no problem drilling out the Ram tank hull rivets.

Hi Adrian,

Were they 3/4" rivets? Presume you used a mag base drill. Did you remove the head from one side first? And did you use drills or annular cutters (Rotobroach)? Just wondering cos with my Grant hull out in the bush I used Oxy to slice off a head and we pushed some out with a pneumatic Rivet Buster when cooled when we had two people (and enough PSI). But then for the rest I needed to get out I cut the other head off too and used a packet of 3/16" drills and an air drill coupled to a modified drill press with some suds to drill the centres and then Oxy'd a "Y" so they'd collapse and then pushed the remains out with a hammer and punch while still hot. Tiny bit of damage to the plate or angle where I wasn't precise with the oxy. Interestingly 3/16" was the minimum drill size that would allow clear oxy penetration through the length of the rivet.

Regards

Alex

tankbarrell · #18 05-01-10, 18:14

Alex,

you pretty much summed it up! Other than using small drills that is. We used a magbroach but using a drillbit of about 5/8".

Cut off one head, grind flat, drill through to about the thickness of plate and then punch out. The punch running inside the rivet with its end against the remaining head.

We had a few that punched out ok without drilling and some that required cutting in a similar way to your description.

All good fun!

cantankrs · #19 05-01-10, 22:47

Cheers Adrian!

Regards

Alex

Lynn Eades · #20 06-01-10, 08:06

It wont be available to everyone, but I used an arc/air gouger to remove the stainless welds from my hull. It would work well for removing rivets too.
As far as tooling goes, I have made up a die for a pneumatic rivet gun. I turned it up on a lathe, out of 4140 (or maybe 4340) the advantage of which, it work hardens with use.