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#1
17-02-08, 16:16
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Lapel badge: recognize it?
This was on the lapel of my grandfather's military photo taken in Aldershot. His cap badge is of the Ontario Tank Regiment, but I just realized his shoulder lapel badges are different. Take a look at the picture: any idea what it is?
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#2
17-02-08, 16:43
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Could it possibly be a Tank Corp related badge and a "hossifer's" one at that?
Is that a King's Crown I see? See http://www.royaltankregiment.com/RTR.htm Look in the "History" page - the badge looks similar to the one used between 1923 and 1952 Paul. Last edited by PPS; 17-02-08 at 16:50. Reason: More info found.
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#3
17-02-08, 19:00
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Quote:
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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#4
17-02-08, 19:23
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On the RCAC Association website there are a couple of illustrations of badges, although whether they were cap badges or not I cannot answer.
Two of them show a badge similar to the British one, but the British motto "Fear Naught" is replaced by "Canada". The two badges in question are for the School and CAC. See http://www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=1 for the details of the badge. On the Essx Regiment website there is an old photograph, a few seem to be wearing "Collar Dogs", but of those I can see none look like the photo Glen has posted. Paul. I have just found this site, and it shows what I believe to be the same "Collar Dog", it is a Canadian Armoured Corps Officer's CD. http://news.webshots.com/album/549607611RvilBx Paul Last edited by PPS; 17-02-08 at 19:27. Reason: More info on badge found.
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#5
17-02-08, 21:58
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Still unsure..here's more information...
Hi again, I think we're getting closer here, but here's some more info to put the lapel badge in context.
My grandfather was trained at Camp Borden, then went to the Officer's Training Camp in Brockville. The pictures I'm going to upload now are all from when he was still in Canada, so I'm thinking the picture of him in Aldershot with the Ontario Regiment capbadge (with arched cat etc..) together with the mysterious lapel badge was such that maybe he hadn't yet received the lapel badges for the Ontario regiment? In any case, the first picture is of three officers, my grandfather's on the right. Maybe the armbadges they have in these pictures are a clue...they all have the same tank logo. I know the guy in the middle and my grandfather both trained at OTC brockville, so maybe the armbadge is from there? Also, the guy in the middle looks like he as already been assigned to a specific regiment, given his capbadge ( is that the sherbrooke fusiliers or the halifax rifles or something?) Anyway, I've posted a closeup of the tank armbadge, as well as a closeup of my grandfather's cap badge while still in canada which looks similar to the lapel badge I'm trying to pinpoint. I looked on the websites you all suggested. I'm thinking it's not the Royal Tank Regiment, since the guy on the left in the 3-officer photo seems to be sporting the same lapel badge that I'm trying to pinpoint, as well as cap badge, and the picture was taken in Canada. I went to the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps website and the badges there look maybe to be what I'm looking for. I'm thinking maybe the one that says "school" is the one I'm looking for, since the mystery lapel badge surface in the original picture I uploaded seems smooth, not covered in rivets like the other one, and it makes sense that they would wear a badge that was for a school if they were, in fact, being schooled at OTC Brockville. But, the badge ("School CAC ")on the RCAC site... http://www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=1 ...also seems like it could be the one I"m looking for because of the placement of the gun on the side of the tank and how it's big and squarish, and there's a big blurry square on the original photo I provided in this thread. What do you think? Am I whistlin' Dixie here? Cheers, Glen.
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#6
18-02-08, 02:22
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On their right arms...
is the "Tank Arm" badge, meaning, quite simply, that they are tankers. It's not that they are members of the Royal Tank Regiment or the Royal Tank Corps, but simply "tankers". It's an "Arm of Service" badge that was only worn on their Service Dress uniforms, not their battle dress. What I'm seeing is three young Officer-cadets or newly commissioned officers (I don't remember if they had their rank showing) at the Armour school. They wear their home unit's cap badges on their berets, the school's collar dogs, as they are temporarily posted there, and of course, since they are tankers, they have the "Tank Arm" badges on their right arms only. I'm sure any zipperhead will confirm this. Darryl Zinck hasn't posted here for a while, I'm sure he knows. Derek.
P.S. The fuzzy cap badge of the middle officer has the general shape of the Elgin Regiment
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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#7
19-02-08, 02:37
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Hi All
Darrell hasn't posted in a while because, more often than not, he can't get in!!!  Glen Yes, your GF is wearing the cap and collar badges of the Canadian Armoured Corps (CAC). Issued in 1940 though never "officially" authorized as such. Thet were all siver in colour. You may now know we didn't gain the "Royal" prefix until after the war in Europe ended and didn't adopt the mailed fist badge for Corps Troops until July 1949. PPS is pretty spot on. Student and Staff (all ranks) of the Canadian Armoured Fighting Vehicle School (CAFVS) wore it as well as those going over seas as re-inforcements. Not uncommon at all for those who hadn't been Regimented yet. If he was an Ontario Regiment (Ont R) Officer, those badges would have came later. No Ont R badges seen in that pic of the three. The centre chap's is a puzzzle as it's very hard to see but possibly Halifax Rifles (HR) Officers capbadge based on the shape and pointy bits locations. No other WW2 Armoured Regiment's capbadges match what I can see. Of the 32 units that served in the Corps during WW2 the HR looks closest to what that chap in the centre is wearing. I looked carefully at my collection of those unit's capbadges (missing just 3 but it's still a work in progress) and will say likely HR. As for the sleeve patch, that was first used in 1938 to identify the Staff at the CAFVS and later Students of the various Canadian Armoured Corps Schools. The name changes our Corps and it's schools went through can get a bit confusing at times!! Depend when that pic was taken, I guess. Any idea what month and year? What was your GF's name and do you know his ser #? PM/email it if you like. I may be able dig up a bit more unless you already have his file. Is he deceased? WW2 files aren't too too hard to get if you're family. Hope that helps you.  regards Darrell Last edited by Darrell Zinck; 19-02-08 at 02:40. Reason: clarify a bit!!!
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#8
19-02-08, 03:01
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Hi again
I'm thinking now that the chap in the centre is NOT wearing the capbadge of the Halifax Rifles. Mainly because his collar badges do not match the shape of the HR ones. Possibly a COTC set then? regards Darrell
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#9
19-02-08, 04:07
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Quote:
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PRONTO SENDS
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#10
19-02-08, 05:18
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I would argue that the 1st and 2nd officers are British as they do not wear the "Canada" flash. The second officer is from a Rifle Regiment (note the blackened buttons) while the third officer wears the "Canada" flash. They are not Officer Cadets but are (from left to right) a Second Lieutenant, Lieutenant, and another Second Lieutenant.
BTW, in the Canadian Army, the Tank badge was worn in the 1st Canadian Tank Brigade as well as by Armour units of the 4th Canadian Armoured Division. The 5th CAD specifically rejected the badge.
__________________
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed. - M38A1, 67-07800, ex LETE
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#11
20-02-08, 02:04
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Hi All
I gotta stop typing when tired. I was thinking that Glen's GF was on the left not the right. I guess since I've been flying a desk that my "keen recce eye" has clouded over somewhat!!!  Clive Very good point. See, that's why you write books..........and I do not!!  If the left and centre chaps are indeed British then I cannot help. Stands to reason the left man is wearing a Brit Royal Tank Regt badge then. And the man in the centre; no idea at all now. Waaaaayyy too many badges there to keep straight. regards Darrell
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#12
20-02-08, 02:14
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Hi again
OK, now I'm really confused. I've just re-read this thread. Glen, you mention in you second post that your GF is on the right. Is that as we're looking at it or from the perspective of those Officers in the photo? You show close ups of the badges/patch of both the left and right men (as we're looking at it). Which one exactly is your GF again?? If he is on the left (as we're looking at it and owning the badges you've shown us a close up of, then was he a Brit or a Cdn? If Cdn, then Clive's theory that he and the centre chap are British, doesn't hold. Mind you, his info on the sleeve patch wearers is spot on though. Both students and Staff at the "Armour School" wore them as well as those serving in in 1st Cdn Tk Bde and 4CAD. Please clarify. I'll wait until I'm rested to carefully read your response.  regards Darrell
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#13
22-02-08, 23:14
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Clarification to a muddy issue...
Sorry it's taken a while for me to respond. Somehow I was waiting for one of those e-mail notifications that people responded here.
Here is some clarification, hopefully: RE: [Glen, you mention in you second post that your GF is on the right. Is that as we're looking at it or from the perspective of those Officers in the photo? ]Sorry for the confusion. My grandfather is on the right as you see him in the picture ( from the cameraman's perspective). From the perspective of my grandfather, looking at the camera, he is standing on the left of his friends. RE: [If he is on the left (as we're looking at it and owning the badges you've shown us a close up of, then was he a Brit or a Cdn? If Cdn, then Clive's theory that he and the centre chap are British, doesn't hold. Mind you, his info on the sleeve patch wearers is spot on though. Both students and Staff at the "Armour School" wore them as well as those serving in in 1st Cdn Tk Bde and 4CAD.] My grandfather was Canadian, and I know the guy in the centre was Canadian as well, and ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Caen. I'll blow up the picture of his cap badge for identification. I assume the guy on the left was Canadian as well. The picture was taken in Dundas, Ontario, Canada on Sept. 22, 1942. I know that the guy in the middle ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers. Cheers, Glen.
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#14
22-02-08, 23:26
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Clarification to a muddy issue...
Sorry it's taken a while for me to respond. Somehow I was waiting for one of those e-mail notifications that people responded here.
Here is some clarification, hopefully: RE: [Glen, you mention in you second post that your GF is on the right. Is that as we're looking at it or from the perspective of those Officers in the photo? ]Sorry for the confusion. My grandfather is on the right as you see him in the picture ( from the cameraman's perspective). From the perspective of my grandfather, looking at the camera, he is standing on the left of his friends. RE: [If he is on the left (as we're looking at it and owning the badges you've shown us a close up of, then was he a Brit or a Cdn? If Cdn, then Clive's theory that he and the centre chap are British, doesn't hold. Mind you, his info on the sleeve patch wearers is spot on though. Both students and Staff at the "Armour School" wore them as well as those serving in in 1st Cdn Tk Bde and 4CAD.] My grandfather was Canadian, and I know the guy in the centre was Canadian as well, and ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Caen. I'll blow up the picture of his cap badge for identification. I assume the guy on the left was Canadian as well. The picture was taken in Dundas, Ontario, Canada on Sept. 22, 1942. I know that the guy in the middle ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers. Cheers, Glen.
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