Cromwell with Canadian forces

[dsfraser]

Well, to make a long story short, I bought a Tamiya Cromwell on eBay, and don't know what to do with it! If I'm to build it at all, it has to be Canadian, but I have precious little info on the Cromwell and nothing at all on Canadian use. Will someone toss me a life ring?

This is sooo far out of my expertise I'm at a total loss. I'm quite horrififed to watch it happen, as a bystander as it were, but I'm slowly getting drawn into building HQ models of Canadian tanks. For decades I've concentrated on Soviet armour, and I can tell you chapter and verse on T-34s, but all I know from Cromwells is that they were named after Oliver! (They could have called them 'Twist'!)

Even worse, AFV Club have announced what appears to be a killer model of the Churchill Mk.III, as used at Dieppe, and this is another model I have to build. I have wanted to do so for forty years, ever since I saw the images of the Calgary Tanks stranded on the beach — and that was before I lived in Calgary.

And I guess I will have to flesh this out with a Firefly. Tasca have a terrific model now of this tank, so there's another. I should live so long. My wife, Giod bless her, is already giving me a hard time about my stash, and I only got back into tanks last September.

So . . . if anyone here can give me a link or a reference to good information on Canadian use of the Cromwell, preferably clear photos, I will be grateful, and indebted.

Heavy sigh. Modelling is such a slippery slope.

Kevin, I have a ton of Russian books and links, and will keep an eye open for Canadian Valentines sent to the USSR. They loved them there! to the point where Stalin insisted they be kept in production just for the Red Army.

Regards all

Scott Fraser
Calgary

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by dsfraser

Well, to make a long story short, I bought a Tamiya Cromwell on eBay, and don't know what to do with it! If I'm to build it at all, it has to be Canadian, but I have precious little info on the Cromwell and nothing at all on Canadian use. Will someone toss me a life ring?

Hi Scott;

The answer to your question is unfortunately no, they were not used by the Canadian Armoured Corps. They were however used by the 1st Polish Armoured Division who served under command of First Canadian Army in North-West Europe in 1944/45.

Originally Posted by dsfraser

Even worse, AFV Club have announced what appears to be a killer model of the Churchill Mk.III, as used at Dieppe, and this is another model I have to build. I have wanted to do so for forty years, ever since I saw the images of the Calgary Tanks stranded on the beach — and that was before I lived in Calgary.?

The Calgary Regiment landed and lost eighteen Churchill MkIII tanks at Dieppe.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[dsfraser]

Thanks Mark. As for the Cromwell, I kinda figured as much. I do have some reference for Polish forces, so I guess that's where I'm headed.

The Churchill is one of those models I simply must build. I have quite a few photos I've accumulated over the years, and will choose one of the vehicles stranded on the beach to place on a diorama base. I don't think I'll add figures.

Speaking of Dieppe . . . it's been a while since I was here. I thought there was a section for aviation-related subjects, but don't see anything of the sort on the main page. Is my memory really that bad?

Perhaps, if you know of such a site, could you refer me?

One of my good friends is the son of Fred Clarke, who was Flight Leader with Hollis Hills over Dieppe on August 19, 1942. They were wilth No.414 Sqn, flying Mustang Mk.Is on a recce that morning. They were bounced by a pair of Fw-190s, Freddie's bird was shot up and he bailed out over the beach, where he was picked up by an RN destroyer and caught a ride back to the UK. Hollis went after the Focke-Wulf that had attacked Freddie and shot it down. It was a small but significant engagement — that day Hollis scored the very first kill ever in a P-51 / Mustang, and Freddie had the misfortune to be flying the first Mustang lost in combat.

I have solid information on the markings of both aircraft, based on personal photos and many years of researching WW2 aircraft, and would like very much to fin someone to build a pair of these birds. Freddie died a couple of years ago, but at last report Hollis was still alive and pinching the nurses' bums in Forida (he was one of the Yanks in the RCAF).

Anyway, if you can direct me to a site where I might find someone to build some Mustangs, they would be highly prized by Fred's sons.

Cheers
Scott Fraser

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by dsfraser

. . . it's been a while since I was here. I thought there was a section for aviation-related subjects, but don't see anything of the sort on the main page. Is my memory really that bad?

Perhaps, if you know of such a site, could you refer me?

Hi Scott;

No, there is no section for aviation-related subjects on this forum, although Keith Webb a member of the forum does post aviation-related subjects throughout ...

Myself, I cannot guide you to an aviation-related site, perhaps Keith will read this and jump in with a link or two.

Cheers

[alvin5182]

Gents:

Two points to this thread:

Canadians did use AA Cromwells. Enclosed find a photos of a Canadian Grenadier Guards AA Cromwell in Holland (4 Cdn Armoured Div). I believe some major model company (Italieri?) just released one in 35th scale.



As for having models of 414 Sqn Mustang 1's built, you could try on www.aircraftresourcecentre.com Lots of knowledge and Canadian modellers on there.


Al Davis

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by alvin5182

Canadians did use AA Cromwells. Enclosed find a photos of a Canadian Grenadier Guards AA Cromwell in Holland (4 Cdn Armoured Div).

Hi Al;

Your photo is actually of a Crusader III, AA MkIII - notice the driver's visor plate is square and opens outwards to the left. On a Centaur the driver's visor plate was round and opens outwards to the right. Also, on a Centaur the driver's visor plate was flush to the front hull below the turret, whereas on the Crusader it was forward and raised on the glacis plate in a small box type fixed turret (as appears in your photo). What denotes this as an AA MkIII as opposed to an AA MkII, is that the radio equipment has been removed from the turret and installed next to the driver's position (notice the two antenna mounts).

Cheers

[Lynn Eades]

Can someone identify the aerial mount on the right that has the ring around it, and where might I buy one? Thanks in advance.

[sapper740]

I wouldn't be too hasty in ruling out making a model of a Canadian Cromwell. I have a picture of a Cromwell with CIRD (Canadian Indestructible Roller Device) which lends credence to it's use to some extent, even if only experimentally by Canada. I don't know of any other countries experimenting with this device, unfortunately I can't make out any WD numbers or unit insignia to confirm where this tank was used. Derek.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by sapper740

I wouldn't be too hasty in ruling out making a model of a Canadian Cromwell. I have a picture of a Cromwell with CIRD (Canadian Indestructible Roller Device) which lends credence to it's use to some extent, even if only experimentally by Canada.

Hi Derek;

"a Cromwell with CIRD" - Even though the CIRD was Canadian in origin, the CIRD mounted on a Cromwell was not used within the Canadian Army either operationally or for training or for even testing and evaluation. The British Army, not the Canadian Army, fitted out a few Cromwell tanks with CIRD for testing and evaluation only and never used the two together operationally, preferring to use the CIRD with the Churchill AVRE and with the Sherman on a scale of issue to Flail equipped units of one per Troop (Sherman w/CIRD), but in the end the CIRD was not used that much at all (either with AVREs or Shermans) and especially not at all by units of the Canadian Army.

Cheers