Aussie Commercial Chevs

[Tony Smith]

Not being a Chev fanatic, I'm not up to speed on some of the different variants of the Modified Commercial Pattern Chevs. Can anyone help?
Most MCP Chevs I have seen pics of have the Civvy style guards and CMP hubs and CMP 16in rims, like the two pics (Which have come from MLU) to follow:


Source: Unusual Chev

[Edited by moderator to include link to picture and source]

[Tony Smith]

The guards (trans: fenders or wings!) are quite rounded with a larger wheel arch than the Civvy truck. The headlights don't have any marker lights, but the right hand one has a military blackout light fitted on top. I believe we identified the truck in the first pic as a CC60L, and these on this post as 1533x.

[Tony Smith]

Pics of Aussie MCP Chevs show a different front to the types pictured above.
The Guards are much flatter (almost Dodge 3/4 ton in style), the hubs are standard Chev 10 stud Commercial, and the wheels are 18in with 10.50-18 tyres. The headlights have a streamlined marker light fitted to the cowls.

[cliff]

Those look to me to be 1940 models. 1941 had the park lamp elongated ontop of the headlamps.

The mudguards are also cut out on the military versions so there is clearance for the bigger tyres of the military versions.

Top photo is also an American cab as it has no quarter light (vent) window at the front of the door window.

NOTE. on the photo below the GMHolden body with the vent window and also the marker lights elongated on top of the head lights. Also the mudguards have been cut out. I have seen pictures of these with different shaped cut outs in the mudguards as well.

Pic from the AWM data banks.

Cheers
Cliff

PS> Dodge 'D' series were cut out the same here in Australia as well.

[Tony Smith]

The front end styling appears on different wheelbase trucks and bodystyles. Could these be Australian built by Holden and the first two trucks be Canadian built?

[Tony Smith]

Cliff, the trucks in your pic have the marker lights on the headlights, but still have rounded guards. The guards, like on this Aussie survivor pictured, have quite flat guards.
Interesting point about the quarter vents, didn't notice that.

[cliff]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
The front end styling appears on different wheelbase trucks and bodystyles. Could these be Australian built by Holden and the first two trucks be Canadian built?

the top truck is an American cab but RHD the next pic of the LRDG Chevs are assembled in Eygpt and have lots of local mods as well

below another pic as well

this time a 30cwt GMHolden type (AUST)

[cliff]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Cliff, the trucks in your pic have the marker lights on the headlights, but still have rounded guards. The guards, like on this Aussie survivor pictured, have quite flat guards.
Interesting point about the quarter vents, didn't notice that.

that mudguard is a standard Chev mudguard that has had the wheel arch cut out to accept the bigger tyres fitted Tony. I do the same to my models when doing military versions

Got any more pics of the surviver?

Cheers
Cliff

here is two pics one with just the front of the mudguard cut out the second a standard guard

[cliff]

PIC 2 Standard mudguard

[Tony Smith]

The truck is disassembled and under other stuff, so clear overall pics are not possible. Some details like the guards are visible, and got my attention. The Kingaroy truck pictured has commercial Budd wheels on 5 stud hubs, and the 30cwt holden truck also has 5 stud hubs. This truck and the other Aussie ones I've pictured have 10 stud hubs....

[Tony Smith]

....and 10.50-18 wheels.

[Tony Smith]

These trucks often come up for sale. In the upper pic you can compare the side profiles of the "Cutaway" guard and the "Flat style" guard.

[cliff]

what must be remembered is the lack of 18inch tyres for these once they had been demobbed and the original tyres had worn down. So I think you will find that the hubs, brake drums and rims would have been changed to suit the tyres that could be had.

Also on the Chev guards the guard is accually quite flat on the top so if the cut is done far enough up the guard it would appear to be a different guard.

The white truck from Kingaroy pictured above was an ex Australian army vehicle while the standard guard picture was never in the Army as far as I could tell.

Also you must remember that the 18inch wheel and tyre was fitted only to Australian vehicles. Now the Question is did the CKD chevrolets come in with ordinary budd 5 stud wheels and tyres with the hubs and wheels being retrofitted here in Australia OR was the change made at the factory in Canada?

Here is a pic showing crated Chevrolet trucks still sitting in a pile in 1946.

Cheers
Cliff

[cliff]

Here is a picture of a French order 6X4 Chev which was diverted to the British when France fell to the German Army. This photo came from an unknown book but I think it also appears in some of Bart's books and magazines as well.

Note the 5 stud wheels and also the American style cab with no vent (quarterlite) window in the door.

Also the guards appear to have been cut out slightly on this one as well.

Cheers
Cliff

[cliff]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
These trucks often come up for sale. In the upper pic you can compare the side profiles of the "Cutaway" guard and the "Flat style" guard.

Tony look at the bottom picture. First thing to note in differences between the two chevs is the front bumper. Army type to the right, civilian type on the left.

NOW also note the one on the left has the same tyres and rims as the one on the right BUT it is a LIGHTER vehicle.

as this is closer to the ground due to lighter springs and it has the oversized tyres on it, it would mean that the guards would have to be cut higher to accomodate the wheel compared to the 3 tonner.

I believe the right hand chev with the military bumper to be a 3 tonner and the other to be a 15cwt.

cheers
Cliff

PS> I am enjoying this conversation

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by cliff

Also on the Chev guards the guard is accually quite flat on the top so if the cut is done far enough up the guard it would appear to be a different guard.

Cheers
Cliff

No, they are definately two distinctly different guards. The "Flat" version has no compound curves whatsoever, just a constant radius, resembling a Dodge 3/4 ton / Power Wagon guard. The width of the flat extends well out over the tyre, whereas the round type is already curved well down at that point.

[cliff]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
No, they are definately two distinctly different guards. The "Flat" version has no compound curves whatsoever, just a constant radius, resembling a Dodge 3/4 ton / Power Wagon guard. The width of the flat extends well out over the tyre, whereas the round type is already curved well down at that point.

Tony I believe you are right. But the flatter guard I think was only fitted to the lower weighted trucks.

Cheers
Cliff

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by cliff
I believe the right hand chev with the military bumper to be a 3 tonner and the other to be a 15cwt.

The truck on the right has 18 inch rims but 5 wheel nuts. I think it might be the same truck as your AWM pic of the 30cwt GMH (Aust) truck.

PS> I am enjoying this conversation

Who could have thought that Chevs could be interesting .

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The photo of the 6 x 4 is a very interesting one...it is one of 2,650 Chevrolet YR Houlder-Thornton 6 x 4s which were as has been said, to French order but diverted. This one would have been assembled possibly by GM LImited in Bamber Bridge, Preston or LEP Transport Limited in Chiswick, London. The contract demand awarded was S/M 2011. These were sourced, from post-war rego evidence, from Flint Plant, Michigan, and were knocked-down.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I am going to post below two official shots of 1940 and 1941 MCPs. The bottom one is a CC60L 3-tonner, and note in both cases no quarter-light. I suspected that this was a Holden-built cab design but have never noticed it before!

The front bumper designs do vary as we have discussed before, with Holden using the US civilian lightweight design as well as the optional heavyweight and military style bumper.

[cliff]

David neither of these photos are GMHolden (Aust) bodied trucks. The bottom picture looks more like a British rear body design and the top one is not GMHolden bodied either.

Another detail to watch for is Holden bodied Chevs have a vent on the side of the cowl between the two door hinges. The others don't

My guess is British CKD jobs.

Cheers
Cliff

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Cliff, both of the photos are official GM of Canada photos, the top being 1940 Model 1543 1 1/2-tonners uprated to 3-ton military rating [same as the 1941 Model US-sourced YR Thornton-Houlder....1 1/2 ton but rated at three tons by the War Department. There were also various diverted GMCs that the WD took over, and they also used Thornton rear-drive], and the bottom a 1543X2 CC60LX2, with British-designed body? The latter photo was I think taken outside the back of the Oshawa Plant..I recognised the background..and the top one seems to have been photographed in a park or similar as those trees feature a lot in official shots. Both photos were from the GM of Canada war album.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ighlight=CC60L


http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ighlight=CC60L

The latter has the photo I extracted from Norm Darwin's book of a Holden-assembled truck, from most likely a US kit rather than Canadian. I agree this does not have the Holden [Woodville] cab.

Note the twin-rear wheeled YR military truck as built and compare with the Thornton-converted truck.

[cliff]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ighlight=CC60L


http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ighlight=CC60L

The latter has the photo I extracted from Norm Darwin's book of a Holden truck. Note the twin-rear wheeled YR military truck as built and compare with the Thornton-converted truck.

David the photo of the Holden Assembled truck is an American/Canadian cabbed one. It would have been assembled from a CKD kit but not built by Holden.

thanks
Cliff

[Tony Smith]

I knew there had to be a good reason to go to Corowa! Cliff, have a look at these guards. They are quite flat are not curved Civvy guards with enlarged wheel arches. More pics sent to you by e-mail.

[cliff]

wow! thanks Tony. I am going to budget for this event next year and hopefully they can cater for the set of wheels I sit in all the time. Although I get my powered version this week so hopefully this will make it easier for me.

Any idea's on dates for next yesr?

thanks
Cliff

[Keith Webb]

Not sure on dates, Cliff, other than it will be about the same time. Accommodation may be a problem - all the cabins at Ball Caravan Park are booked years in advance, and there are long waiting lists, but there is a lot of other accommodation in Corowa.

That Chev was built by Barry Peters on a C60S winch chassis (minus the winch). He told me he had to cut and replace the inner sections of the guards.

The cab had been in a creek for 26 years... but what a great project.

I took quite a few shots of it as well which I'll post soon. The steering has many uni joints to make it work.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Cliff
There are other guys who come with wheels that get to Corowa. MATE YOU WILL BE LOOKED AFTER. Trust me. Get your pennies together and look forward to meeting the most fantastic group of people going.
Its a date - Bob

[Keith Webb]

This shot shows the convoluted steering arrangement Barry had to engineer.

I took a number of pictures of this interesting Chevrolet creation of Barry Peters.

Pictures here

[cliff]

It may not be original but it is in fact (to me at least) a very interesting vehicle and I appreciate the photos Keith and Tony.

cheers
Cliff