CMP 15cwt.....or maybe not?

[Alex]

Hi all,

First post so thanks for letting me on board. I've just bought a CMP Chevy, It looks like a 15CWT but it appears to be on a Quad gun tractor chassis (big winch). Is this a "farm special" or an army mod?

A very elderly mate of mine thought he remembered the REME building some up like this towards the end of ww2 for 17lb anti-tank gun tractors. I can't find any other referance to this though. Any ideas chaps?

If it's a farm special I'll sell it or brake it for spares, if it has an army history I'll have to have a re-think.

regards all, Alex.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Alex, first of all, welcome to MLU! This is the finest assembly of truck builders and WW2 enthusiasts anywhere, and we've evolved into the most close-knit web community I have ever had the privilege of experiencing!

Sir, you are in good company.

Have you any photos of said wee beastie? Are there any data plates available for analysis?

Let's start there and see what we can come up with...

Jif

[Alex]

Thanks for the swift reply,

There are no relevant chassis plates that I've found so far....might be I don't know where to look. There are various plates on the engine cover that say Ford F60T! Most of it seems to be chevy but knowing how we muddled parts of one vehicle to another to keep things going during my time with the colours that seems normal. If I can manage to do it there should be a couple of pics with this.

Big green trucks I can cope with, computers confound me on occasion.

Thanks, Alex.

[Alex]

OK, So that didn't work, I'll have to go back to school!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Alex
I've just bought a CMP Chevy, It looks like a 15CWT but it appears to be on a Quad gun tractor chassis (big winch). Is this a "farm special" or an army mod?

A very elderly mate of mine thought he remembered the REME building some up like this towards the end of ww2 for 17lb anti-tank gun tractors. I can't find any other referance to this though. Any ideas chaps?

Hi Alex,

Welcome to this forum!

A number of 15-cwts with winches have surfaced over the years, especially in the UK. These were all retrofits, but I have no idea who (probably REME if done by the Army, but do not rule out the post-war civilian operators) or why these winches were fitted. During WW2 a number of Portees were converted to gun tractors, but to my knowledge these did not have a winch.

If you have problems postings pictures here, either try Posting Images or e-mail them to me.

Regards,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
A number of 15-cwts with winches have surfaced over the years, especially in the UK.

Just remebered the C15A in Scotland, see C15A's for sale in Scotland (again). As far as I can ascertain, this is a C15A retrofitted with winch, not a Quad/CGT retrofitted with GS body.

[Mike Kelly]

Does it have the larger axles and steering components e.g., as fitted to the 3 Tonners . Checking this would be a clue as to its original status , CGT or C15A ?

Mike

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

General Motors Limited in Cuerdon Mill, Bamber Bridge, near Preston, rebuilt obsolete 2-pdr anti-trank Portees which were built on the CGT chassis, to 30-cwt G/S lorries, though the CGT was a 3-tonner chassis, and also to 17-pdr tractors. However these retained the no. 42 open cab. There were however no Ford equivalents.

Post-war many companies that acquired ex-Ministry of Supply and Canadian CMPs mixed and matched components, and cannibalised on a 10 in and 9 out basis at worst. CGTs were sold for breakdown use obviously, and also used as agricultural and forestry tractors. I can imagine that any 4x4 truck could be fitted with a winch for such work in order to make a sale.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hi Hanno,

Two pic's, I think the chassis is much heavyer than a normal 15CWT so I think it is tractor chassis. Early cab with a square hatch.

Your thoughts? Thanks for your help.

Alex

Hi Alex, I'm posting the two pics on your behalf. I can't tell from these if is a C15A or CGT chassis.

Any thoughts, anyone?

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Alex
There are no relevant chassis plates that I've found so far....might be I don't know where to look. There are various plates on the engine cover that say Ford F60T! Most of it seems to be chevy

Not only the plates on the engine cover, but the cab sheetmetal seems to be of Ford origin as well. Rear body isn't original. Could be this truck is a real bitsa, so any chassis could be lurking under that skin.

As a Ford owner I'm a bit shocked the Ford blood line could be muddled with Chev underpinnings

H.

[Alex]

Hi Hanno,

Had a good look at it last night and it is a real bita, as far as I can tell its a Chevy gun tractor chassis, axles, etc but with a Bedford 28hp motor and a ford cab. It came with a spare set of 20" wheels.

There's also evidence of a breakdown crane being once bolted through the chassis so I think we have the answer. I have to say this fits with the history I was told when I bought it and the guys it came from are good people.

Now all I have to do is think of something creative to do with it!

might put a fifth wheel on it and find a nice early trailer to drag about........?

Thrn it into a 1950's style garage truck with a harvey frost on the back?

Any Ideas?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I wonder if it was "created" immediately post-war? Plonking a Ford cab on a GT chassis makes 1000% sense to me since, as our book will show, this allowed the chassis to be used for recovery work.

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Alex
There are no relevant chassis plates that I've found so far....might be I don't know where to look. There are various plates on the engine cover that say Ford F60T!

So possibly some of the bits came from a Ford F60T which is quite a rare CMP. Here's a pic from the parts book:

http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/manuals/htmanuals/F60T.jpg

Source

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Good point, and I had forgotten what the "bits" said.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hi Alex,

From some of the photos you sent me I get the impression this a a 15cwt chassis, mainly because of the lack of winch cable support rollers and helper springs.

I´m not saying this is a definitive ID, but it is what I can make up from the information available.

Regards,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Rear pintle hook, note lack of cable support rollers.

Also, if it does have CGT axles, it would hardly move on those 16 inch wheels. Good for stump pulling, though. . .

What do others think?

[Grant Bowker]

The pintle looks like a swivelling hook, unusual on CMPs, possibly a retrofit?
I also think that it looks as if the tailgate might interfere with the hook which looks further back than normal, but this might be a perspective illusion.

[Alex]

Hello all,

I've just got back from a week in the mudbath that was the Beltring military vehicle show, Having spent quite a bit of time looking a CMP's of various types I think that what I have here is a "farm special"

It could have been created in workshops by REME but I doubt it, it really is a bitsa.......quite a nice one in a way but I think that it has been created since the war for some civilian use.

Alex.

[rmgill]

We've been looking at this truck for our Yank Scots Recce group over here in the US of A. (15 Recce)

Pluses for the truck in our group are:
1. Winch for recovery
2. It's not US
3. A truck is a handy thing when you have multiple armored cars
4. We had a C15 in the unit when I started and I think more than I miss it. They're just dandy trucks.

I figure for our WWII events here, we can slowly make it more correct looking over time, use it like it was intended and hopefully dress her up as a REME LAD special. Eventually, I'd prefer to see it married up with a FAT body that gets restored, until then, knocking about with us in the field and at events would be good.

[Alex]

I think Ryan and 15 recce have the right idea, It's a fairly solid old bus and, as it's hardly in original condition they can do what ever they want with it and the restorers amongst us can't really drum them out of the brownies for mucking it up.

Alex.