ID this Trailer Chaps

[Ganmain Tony]

Found by a fellow MLU'er in his travels around this district.

We havent a clue, but it appears to be military. Perhaps it had a massive search light on it?

[Ken Smith]

What a find it is a GL Mk111 c radar trailer and untill this post I thought I had the only one left in the world.The house that went on top of it contained all the electrics and two radar dishes.The whole shelter turned on top of the trailer and in the photos you can see the rounded part at the rear of the top deck to give the shelter clearance to turn.There is a lot of info on this forum about the trailers and the radar.Australia had about eighty as far as I can tell.Does it have a ARN ? The radar was made by REL in Canada in about 1943
Cheers Ken

[Ganmain Tony]

Thanks Ken - that is .... well, what can I say?

You fellows on this forum never cease to amaze me. This forum continues to be the best way to expand ones knowledge of the Military equipment world.

For the record, myself and the chap who found it have no interest in gaining financially from its discovery or finding out what it actually is.

Any photo's Ken of a complete example??

[Keith Webb]

I take it we'll soon see it gracing the grounds of Elliott Manor in Ganmain?

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

I take it we'll soon see it gracing the grounds of Elliott Manor in Ganmain?

Just interested in what it is Keefy. And amazed at what still is around

Manor?? I prefer Estate...

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

I take it we'll soon see it gracing the grounds of Elliott Manor in Ganmain?

I meant to say the extensive grounds of the Elliott Manor Estate in the town of Ganmain (cab 12 universal centre).

You should become an Earl, or at least Lord of the Manor.

[Ken Smith]

The only complete ones I have seen photos of I found by searching radar on this forum,but your photos have answered quite a few questions about my trailer plus brought up a few more.All the photos show the trailers with single wheels on the front but mine and "yours" both have duals,mine did use to carry a Cat D6 around though and I know that the previous owner fitted the extra wheels at the Gold Coast before they brought it home in the late 1950,s.
When I got mine the previous owners had all the radar shelter turntable , tool boxes and stabilisers that they proudly gave me. I am missing the adjustable feet which I see that "yours" has.I would like to know how the single wheels were fitted to the dual wheel hubs,does any one have a parts book for one of these trailers?
Cheers Ken

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The only complete ones I have seen photos of I found by searching radar on this forum,but your photos have answered quite a few questions about my trailer plus brought up a few more.All the photos show the trailers with single wheels on the front but mine and "yours" both have duals,mine did use to carry a Cat D6 around though and I know that the previous owner fitted the extra wheels at the Gold Coast before they brought it home in the late 1950,s.
When I got mine the previous owners had all the radar shelter turntable , tool boxes and stabilisers that they proudly gave me. I am missing the adjustable feet which I see that "yours" has.I would like to know how the single wheels were fitted to the dual wheel hubs,does any one have a parts book for one of these trailers?
Cheers Ken

I must admit Ken, the duals made me suspect it wasnt an authentic beasty, because I assumed that all WW2 trailers had singles. Whats the old saying? never assume because it makes etc etc...

Cant help with the parts book but would love to see some photo's of the original trailers during their time in service.

Sounds like you better come and grab it Ken. The lurkers on this forum have now seen it so be quick...

Keefy...I like the way youre thinking.

[Rob Endersbee]

One of my mates has two of these parked in his yard, thought they were Radar, now we know for sure!!. Both of them have singles on the front and duals on the rear. No legs though, or data plates. I wonder what happened to the "House" off all of these??. Perhaps turned into a store room on a farm.

Look forward to some photo's, then we can clean up one of them and get it on display in the Museum.

[Grant Bowker]

Nov 24, 2010 we had three threads active on radar trailers. I found one link but the other links within that one didn't go anywhere for me this morning.

[Local Chap]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

What a find it is a GL Mk111 c radar trailer Cheers Ken

It's only half of the GL MkIII set. It's the APF (Altitude position Fix) trailer. There was also a ZPI (Zone Position Indicator) to complete the set.

[Ken Smith]

Thanks Local Chap this forum is amazing at bringing the impossible to reality.I have never seen the Shilo photo,s before .I have gone from thinking I had the only REL radar trailer, to now they are like mushrooms popping up every where it is wonderfull to see. I suppose if we had the whole outfit we would have a couple of FWD HAR 01s and a C60L.
Has anyone found an ARN on any of the Australian trailers?
Cheers Ken

[Ganmain Tony]

No Ken - are there any data plate positions on these trailers you may know about? Serial numbers? etc?

Perhaps a standard position that they painted the ARN & we may be able to rub or wet the paint to see what lies beneath.....

[Ken Smith]

Tony the only data plate I have found is a tiny one on the turntable which is the Research Enterprise Limited data plate and that doesn't have much info on it. I haven't found anywhere that a plate might have been on the trailer and no sign of a ARN,I have a feeling I read some where that the trailers were made by one of the Canadian mainstream trailer makers.I haven't found any numbers stamped straight on the frame but I will have another look when the ground dries out and I can get up the paddock.
Cheers Ken

[Howard]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

...You should become an Earl, or at least Lord of the Manor.

Good Idea. Earl Elliott.

[Local Chap]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

What a find it is a GL Mk111 c radar trailer ......There is a lot of info on this forum about the trailers and the radar. Australia had about eighty as far as I can tell.

Cheers Ken

Found this info on the Canadian contingent that came out to train the Aussies in the use of the radar, and the 86 units that the Aust Gov purchased. Surprised just how late in the war these arrived and were put into use. Note that a "unit" (x 86) consisted of 5 vehicles, 3 trucks and 2 trailers.

[Local Chap]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The only data plate I have found is a tiny one on the turntable which is the Research Enterprise Limited data plate and that doesn't have much info on it. I haven't found anywhere that a plate might have been on the trailer and no sign of a ARN, I have a feeling I read some where that the trailers were made by one of the Canadian mainstream trailer makers. I haven't found any numbers stamped straight on the frame but I will have another look when the ground dries out and I can get up the paddock.
Cheers Ken

The APF trailers were constructed by Brantford and the ZPI trailers by Truck Engineering Co, both Canadian roadfreight vehicle makers and bodybuilders.

The radar units were rego'd into the Aust Army in two batches of ARN's (which would tie in to the two Canadian contingents arriving into Sydney and Melbourne) in the ARN ranges of 123801-123960 (Vic) and 146001-146250 (NSW) and 147737-147843(NSW) in various blocks.

I have seen one of these trailers on a block not all that far from me a couple of years ago, and I recall at the time it had a sheet brass Data Plate on the right hand frame of the front axle dolly.

[hrpearce]

Originally Posted by Howard

Good Idea. Earl Elliott.

But then we would have to address him as "Sir Anthony of Ganmain"

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Ken,
I have the remains of the C60L for your outfit!

Regards,
Robert Williams

Robert that would be very nice to have and it is within border raid distance to.The data plate is very well preserved.Does your truck have a Canadian cab or an Australian one?
Cheers Ken

[alamotex]

Originally Posted by Local Chap

It's only half of the GL MkIII set. It's the APF (Altitude position Fix) trailer. There was also a ZPI (Zone Position Indicator) to complete the set.

Just how I missed this thread when it was active in May 2011, beats me...the GL III(c) story is a major interest of mine and Local Chap's post is a good place for me to add my two cents worth. The on-line source for the three attached thumbnails was yours truly..in fact the two coloured images APF ( Accurate Position Finder ) and the ZPI ( Zone Position Indicator ) were taken in Shilo, Manitoba when it was first discovered ( 2006 ) that one GL III (c) had survived in Canada. The Canadian developed GL III (c) was the first centimetric mobile gunlaying radar to be put into mass production by the Allies during WW II. It represents a remarkable achievement by Canadian Scientists and Engineers when microwave technology was in its infancy. What is remarkable about the APF unit at Shilo is that much of the original (1942 )interior pre solid state electronics is still in place ( see attached ) and could be partially restored if certain obstacles could be overcome. I was aware of the two gutted ZPI trailers discovered in Oz by Tony Smith, but those referred to in this thread are new to me. Please get in touch by PM if you wish to dialogue further on this topic.

Cheers Brian

[alamotex]

Originally Posted by Rob Endersbee

One of my mates has two of these parked in his yard, thought they were Radar, now we know for sure!!. Both of them have singles on the front and duals on the rear. No legs though, or data plates. I wonder what happened to the "House" off all of these??. Perhaps turned into a store room on a farm.

Look forward to some photo's, then we can clean up one of them and get it on display in the Museum.

Rob You are right in suggesting that the "house" off all these trailers ended up as store rooms on a farm. That was the fate of several that were sold by a scrap yard in Quebec, back in the 50's or 60's. The interior electronics were stripped well before they reached the scrap yard. You are probably familiar with the Australian War Memorial photo collection items ID 067915 and 067916 which show trucks and trailers lined up at the 5th Base Ordnance Depot. Moorebank, NSW. Photos of the GL III (c ) deployed in a military role are very rare. Joe Costello who runs the rcsigs militaria website, found a set at the Library and Archives, Ottawa catalogued under RADIOLOCATION . see www.rcsigs.ca/ViewItem/1116 and as thumbnails below.

Cheers Brian

[Robin Craig]

The last picture in the last post by "alamotex" has me thinking.

I know I have seen that trailer around here, somewhere, in the last 2 years but cant figure out where, now I'm kicking myself.

I am, by my own admission, not a WW2 buff but do recognise odd things.

Now I will have to fire up the Mk1 brain memory and think if I can track where I was.

R

[alamotex]

Robin I note your address as Kingston, ON ? Would be most interested if your recollection of seeing a ZPI trailer, turns out to be close to home. The folks at the C and E Museum have never mentioned it. In my post #23 I incorrectly refer to the Australian War Museum..that should be the Australian War Memorial.

Cheers Brian

[Robin Craig]

I have had the benefit of a small nap since my last post.

I am now absatively posalutely sure I have seen one of these.

It is being used somewhere to house a generator. I'm fairly sure it was in a quarry and had to be mobile, and give weather cover, which it does.

I think I saw it in the last 2 years.

It may take me while to figure it out but leave that to me now, but don't hold your breath as it wont be that soon!

R

[Mike Cecil]

Wow! This HAS been a fascinating series of posts! And who would have thought that our - sorry, that should probably be 'their' -own Sir Tony of Ganmain would be the initiator? I say, well done, Sir Tony!

Now for my 'tuppence-h'penny worth', to coin a pre-decimal phrase. All the Canadian Radar trailers sent to Oz that I have found record of, and the prime movers and support vehicles, fall within the ARN range 145959 to 146058, and 147737 to 147761. (There are none in the range 123801 to 123960: these are mostly CDN Lynx Scout cars). I have not counted them as yet, but will do so once the update is done (see below).

When I originally extracted the info, it didn't mean a lot other than to be 'unusual' and include some Chev CMPs which were my prime interest in that datablock. The radar sets were a pain to 'decipher' as they were described and registered simply as 'Trailer, Radar A' and 'Trailer, Radar B', so I didn't really have a clue what they were. But now, thanks to this post, I can put the 'A' and 'B' against the actual type. As the manufacturer was also recorded at the time, it nails each one down nicely: I think an update to the database is now needed, which will give me a total of each item.

Excellent work, gents, and I have to agree: the knowledge base on this forum is outstanding!

Mike C

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Howard

Good Idea. Earl Elliott.

'Earl' said State 'O Maine.

[Mike Cecil]

Sir Anthony, 1st Earl of State 'o Main?

And his post nominals? Must be KCMG (that's 'Knows Canadian Military Gear'), and how about 'MM' (Much Militaria) and the classic 'VD and Bar' (that's actually 'Victorian Decoration' and stands at the Bar!)

Mike C
Lowly Peasant of Colbert

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Sir Anthony, 1st Earl of State 'o Main?

And his post nominals? Must be KCMG (that's 'Knows Canadian Military Gear'), and how about 'MM' (Much Militaria) and the classic 'VD and Bar' (that's actually 'Victorian Decoration' and stands at the Bar!)

Mike C
Lowly Peasant of Colbert

As a staunch New South Welshman I think perhaps a clarification 'VD and Bar' should read 'VD and Bar (NSW)' even though this could well have been bestowed by Queen Victoria herself had she known him.

How did this thread become so badly derailed?

[cliff]

We could also add S.I.R. after it as well for Seriously Into Rust

In my case S.I.R. stands for Seriously Irrisistable Roo!

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Perhaps a standard position that they painted the ARN & we may be able to rub or wet the paint to see what lies beneath.....

ARN should be painted near the door on the LHS of the body, and possibly elsewhere too.