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  #31  
Old 11-09-14, 23:49
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Need Picture of Left Front Engine Shield

Hi All

My Pat 12 was missing the left inner panel that gives access to generator from under the left front fender and I need some photographs so I can fabricate a new one.

Click image for larger version

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The truck is running great and the engine overheating problem seems to be solved. Now I'm working on the Driver Over Heating problem and trying to understand the cooling of the engine compartment. We have all seen pictures of Pat 11s & 12s operating in the desert without hood or upper side panels, but I'm coming to believe that this may actually make cab over heating worse not better. My logic for this is that with out all the panels in place the air from the fan is allowed to escape without blowing past the engine in the dog house and pushing the heat out and back under the cab.

Here are some photos of the Cab all repainted.

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I spent an afternoon driving the truck around the back roads of town with the air temp in the mid 80sF/30C and the engine did NOT overheat either driving up long grades in 3rd gear or running along flat ground in 4th. I have fabricated new door hooks so that I can drive with the doors open to scoop air into the cab which helps with the driver over heating.

Hope somebody has a photo of the inner panel in their collection. I've searched through all the photos that Bob sent me a couple years ago and have not found a picture yet.

Cheers Phil
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Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 12-09-14 at 23:38. Reason: formatting
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  #32  
Old 12-09-14, 00:00
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Default

If I understand the problem correctly and the hole above the tyre in the first photo is filled by the panel you need to find/make, Bob does have the panel to be able to photograph and measure it. His best panel is already in the truck so not all sides are easily seen/photgraphed but the second or third best should supply views that can't be gotten of the best panel. As always on cab 11/12 it is a wrestle to get the panel in place. If you are fabricating a new one, you can put the holes in place to match your arch bar and fasteners so it should all fit "perfectly". You may also end up loosening or removing the headlight support bracket for installation clearance.
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  #33  
Old 12-09-14, 00:42
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default On the right track

Hi Grant

You are describing the panel I need to replicate, I think.

On the Pat 13s this panel starts off being held in place with 3 or 4 1/4x20 bolts or flat head machine screws in 1942 to an end state of having a twist lock in 1945 so that this panel could be easily removed and more important easily reinstalled. The logic on the Pat 13s to make it easier to remove and instal is so that you could access the fan belt and the generator. As the generator had to be loosened to disengage the fan for fording I suspect that they realized they had to make it easier.

On the Pat 11 & 12 I would not be surprised to hear it is held in place by half dozen bolts and require the removal of 2 other parts to remove the panel. Working on the different Pattern # you gain a real appreciation of the improvements they were making to CMPs in response to field service problems.

I suspect that this panel is also needed to protect the fan, radiator, belt and generator from mud and water being splashed in from the front wheel.

Cheers Phil
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  #34  
Old 12-09-14, 16:49
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Wonderful job on the truck.

Hi Phil

I will have pictures of the panel in place on mine by tonite. Also have a spare panel I can send you...... can mail from UPS mid of next week.....will include pictures of the spare at the same time.

And if my failing memore is correct there are NO access panel in the original of the cab 11.....will check on a few cab 12 I have just to verify. Now there is a panel on the driver's side near the fuel pump. ....and I may have a panel that was cut up by the previous owner.

It will be a nightmare to install now that the rest of the sheet metal is on place.

Well I am off with my camera..

Cheers
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  #35  
Old 12-09-14, 19:31
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Pictures done.....

None of those side panels have access panels like the right hand side.

Will post pics tonite..... and have a donor panel I can mail to you to use or replicate.

Bob C
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  #36  
Old 13-09-14, 05:23
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Well here they are....

Hi Phil

The first series of pictures are actually my cab 11 side panel which I opted to replace with a better one. It would be a good model to reproduce from. It seems that all my cab 11 and cab 12 are the same configuration..... with no access door.

You will noticed that all my trucks are named from who I got them from.... also keeps them easily identified if you have any questions.

You may wish to incorporate them on your site for future reference.

I have included text on each one.

If any one as any questions, comments or if my information is incorrect fire away.

May have to post the pics in more than one email.

Cheers
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  #37  
Old 13-09-14, 05:28
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default More pics

Note to myself......

next time use larger print size for text
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  #38  
Old 13-09-14, 05:30
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Some more....

.....so far so good.
Attached Thumbnails
DSC08914croptextaroresized.jpg   DSC08917croptextaroresized.jpg  
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  #39  
Old 13-09-14, 05:43
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Testing higher resolution

Picture shows as 2.0 MB on my system

Let's see if the MLU system will accept it.
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resizedtext.jpg  
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  #40  
Old 13-09-14, 05:54
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Test no 2

resized to 2.2 mb .....yet it shows up as 69 kb size when posted.

Enough for one night.
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DSC08918resized3mb2.5aa2.2.jpg  
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  #41  
Old 13-09-14, 08:44
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Carriere View Post
resized to 2.2 mb .....yet it shows up as 69 kb size when posted.
Hi hi Bob, you need to buy more tokens from the MLU store

Kidding aside: the forum SW resizes pictures automatically.

H.
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  #42  
Old 13-09-14, 14:57
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Great Detail Of Inner Panel

Hi Bob

Those are great detail photos of the inner panel, it should be a snap to make a template for the panel now that I know what it looks like in such detail. Ian had also sent me a photo by e-mail so between all the photos I should be set.

My plan is to make a template for what how the original should be made, then plan to figure out how to make a panel that can be more easily removed for road side service. Having lost fan belts and had to fix stuck generator brushes on the road, want to be sure I can get into that area with out having to remove some of those bolts.

Hanno- Didn't know that the MLU software now auto reduced photos, I have been carefully resizing them before posting. Auto resizing will make posting photos easier.

Cheers Phil

My thanks to Bob and Ian for responding with photos quickly.
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Last edited by Phil Waterman; 13-09-14 at 14:58. Reason: Adding Thanks
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  #43  
Old 13-09-14, 15:05
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Replacement for the floor vent hose

Hi All

Bobs photos showing the side view of the air scoop and the floor vent, reminded me what I have found to be an easy and good fitting duct hose.

After looking and not finding a ready source for the flex hose I was looking for a simple solution answer a Coke Can (or other canned beverage can) cut off the top and bottom paint and slip it on. Has to be installed while one or the other end of the panels is being installed.

Cheers Phil
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  #44  
Old 13-09-14, 15:16
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Bob prefers Pepsi. More seriously, similar ducting is used in light aircraft. I haven't really tried to find a source but can ask around, after all I work at the airport.
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  #45  
Old 13-09-14, 15:24
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Beer can

I will use a Moosehead beer can as it is already green......


On the resizing...... I can submit up to 2.2mb and MLU will accept for posting anything above that is rejected SO the resizing may be automatic but only up to a point.

Higher resolution pictures can be sent to individuals by regular emails if requested. Hi res pictures are so nice when you went to enlarge to see details.

Hanno.... will sned an order for more token...do you have bulk discount??

Bob C
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  #46  
Old 13-09-14, 15:33
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Waterman View Post
Hanno- Didn't know that the MLU software now auto reduced photos, I have been carefully resizing them before posting. Auto resizing will make posting photos easier.
Phil,

Yes it does but only to a certain extent. If you try to upload the typical digital camera image size of several MB's, it may be too large and will not upload. In that case you will still need to resize before attaching. Give it a try!

Hanno
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  #47  
Old 14-09-14, 04:18
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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A possible source for flexible ducting that resembles the type used in CMPs. http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/pdf/201...l/Cat13111.pdf Aircraft Spruce also operates a US site at aircraftspruce.com I suspect shipping to many parts of the world will be more than the price of the ducting. Confirm on your truck but a quick and dirty measurement on one of Bob's yardbirds suggests 1 foot of 2-1/2" ID should be enough for a truck with a bit to spare. US and Canadian pricing for that is around $10-20 for that quantity including postage/shipping.
Other sources might be your local airport (but go to the Cessna side, not the Boeing/Airbus side) or anyone in your area who's into homebuilt or experimental aircraft. This part of the Experimental Aviation Association's website might help you find someone in your area. http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-chapte...an-eaa-chapter They might be as curious about your truck as you are about the planes...
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  #48  
Old 14-09-14, 04:27
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Another possible source.....

Ducting sold by wood working shops for dust collectors....comes in various size but would need painting as it is usually transparent to detect blockages.

Princess Auto also has a similar pipe for sump pumps....wire coil is designed to keep piping from collapsing under vacuum.... also clear plastic but could be roughened up in the blasting cabinet to better hold OD paint.

Last would be a junk yard looking for duct work under the dash of older cars..

Cheers
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  #49  
Old 14-09-14, 22:49
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Well the Driver over heating is solved for now.

Hi All

Well my problem of getting overheated while driving the Pat 12 seems to be completely solved for now maybe 6-7 months.

Took the truck to a Cruzin this morning and with the temperature down 40F or 4C outside it was to say a little nippy given that it was in the mid 80sF 30sC two weeks ago the season change came on quickly.

Think I'll have to make a radiator muff and drive with the distributor door open. Been working on floor pad to close up the holes around the peddles and steering column may have to make it to be easy to remove.

Cheers Phil
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  #50  
Old 15-09-14, 02:21
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default First Youtube video post Pat 12 on the road

Hi Guys

I've been trying to learn how to upload video to YouTube and here is the first test. What I was trying to show was the process of double clutch shifting but what is here is a shorter video from this morning.

Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCX3...ature=youtu.be

Cheers Phil
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  #51  
Old 15-09-14, 04:42
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Very nice......

A pleasure to see a pro at doouuble clutching both in the upshift as well as down shifting.

Now for the general comments...

Looks like you were driving in the narrow streets of Europe...

seems like you were going really fast but could not read the speedo...

...and no wonder you were cold you forgot to put the top on...... and you worry about the draft coming from around the pedals and steering shaft.....duh!!!!

Are you using a Go Pro???

Joyce's comments on seeing the new coat of paint was....WOW !!!!!

Cheers

Bob C

PS///do you need any particular measurements for the pass. side engine panel...? Or I could send you mine next week for the UPS store in upper NY.
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  #52  
Old 15-09-14, 09:45
Mrs Vampire Mrs Vampire is offline
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Those Gear changes are sweet even a nice down change....

How fast were you going it looks Montecarlo F1 from the video
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  #53  
Old 15-09-14, 11:49
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Ganmain Tony Ganmain Tony is offline
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Default Really really nice!

Phil that is fantastic! Really terrific to be able feel like I was in the truck with you.

She is running like a swiss watch and clearly has an excellent operator behind the wheel.

Really enjoyed getting a tour of the town - is that part of Temple you were driving through?

Beautiful part of the world where ever it is.

Congratulations on a big effort.
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Last edited by Ganmain Tony; 15-09-14 at 22:42.
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  #54  
Old 15-09-14, 14:55
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Responding to Questions about the Video

Hi All

To Bobs questions - Video is next town over, streets are narrow and actually in the main part of town were made narrower a couple of years ago as a traffic calming effort. The speedometer only goes up to 30MPH and then stops, probably a dead bug inside. Speedometer may not be accurate anyway as this truck originally had the 16 inch rims which have been replaced with the 20s you brought down for me years ago.

Yes the video is shot on a GoPro I have a lot more video to edit down and make a couple of videos out of. One problem I'm having with YouTube is extremely slow up loads, got to check my computer and internet connection to figure out why.

Gina- yes this transmission shift very nicely now, before I replaced the clutch plate and got some sticky stuff of the pressure plate during the recent work it shifted horribly because half the time it would not disengage completely. The clutch was so unpredictable once the truck was in second gear it was often just as easy to not use the clutch shift, instead just use the throttle to load and unload while going through neutral.

Tony- This particular video is driving around in the Town of Peterborough, NH which is the Big town near Temple, NH where we live. I've got some really good video of driving around on the back roads of Temple which I will try and upload.

Like having the Pat 12 without the roof, call it my 3 ton roadster. The truck drew a lot of attention at the car show that I was going to in the video. I have before, as found pictures of the truck along with a lot of photos from the Australian Archives, they're mounted in plastic sleeves with magnets put them on one side of the truck. People find them quite interesting.

Cheers Phil
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  #55  
Old 15-09-14, 16:40
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Waterman View Post
One problem I'm having with YouTube is extremely slow up loads, got to check my computer and internet connection to figure out why.
Is it only uploading to You Tube or do you also get slow speeds when uploading updates to your web site? Many internet providers advertise lightning fast speeds, but the asterisk shows it is for download only and upload may be only 1/10th the speed.
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  #56  
Old 15-09-14, 19:00
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Thanks for the tip

Hi Grant

Thanks for the tip I'll try loading the same file up to my website and see how long it takes.

Cheers Phil
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  #57  
Old 07-07-17, 20:42
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Splash Shield Made and Installed

Hi Bob and everybody else who responded to the Need Picture of Left Front Engine Shield

Well I finally got around to fabricating the Left Splash Shield.

Here it is installed, note I did some field modification reducing the number of bolts that have to be removed to access the generator. It now has only three bolts to remove or install.
Click image for larger version

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See next post for dimensions.

Next two photos show the unit being prep for spot welding.
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Have not driven the truck much since installing but it noticeably reduces the amount of fan air coming out under the fender. But it also appears to increase the air pressure in the engine box so that any seem or joint on the dog house aimed at the driver now produces a stream of hot air. Spent the morning sealing and closing those gaps up.

My thanks for all the photos provided, once it was clear what the part looked like it was not difficult to cut and fit cardboard template. Once that was done then the steel was easy.

Cheers Phil
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Last edited by Phil Waterman; 07-07-17 at 20:45. Reason: clarification
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  #58  
Old 10-07-17, 21:09
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Left Side Engine Splash Shield

Hi

Hope these panel templates, with more readable dimension for the panels to fabricate the splash shield, are more helpful

Click image for larger version

Name:	W Pat 12 Splash Shield Side.jpg
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ID:	92102

Note the 1" holes are meant to over lay the side panel mounting bolts, with only 2 of them being used to attach the panel. The tap toward the front is bolted to the radiator frame using a carriage bolt with a thin nut to capture the bolt to the radiator frame which is them over laid by the tap with large washer and nut.

Click image for larger version

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On the bottom panel the two 1" holes over lay the frame rail rivets. This edge is covered with some anti squeaking material to allow for cab movement.

Click image for larger version

Name:	W Pat 12 Splash Shield Front.jpeg
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ID:	92103

Front of the shield just completes the enclosure.

As mentioned having both Splash Shields in place forces the air from the fan to flow through the engine dog house without all the air from the fan being exhausted into the wheel wells. Did some testing over the weekend in 80F air temp on long 10%+ grades down in second gear to see if it improves engine cooling or not. No clear difference.

Cheers Phil
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  #59  
Old 10-07-17, 22:35
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Nice creative thinking.

Hi Phil

Love the way you over drilled the bolt holes to prevent having to tear down the whole cab assembly to access the panel.

I remember the headache I had trying to remember the sequence that needs to be followed in the cab re-assembly.

If you need any additional info let me know. I have not seen, at least in Eastern salted Canada, a cab11 or 12 that did not have these panels rusted to bits........ a bad design to start with but then they were not suppose to last 75+ years.

Been working reskinning the back lower portion of my roof....not progressing very fast. I had to redo the curved angle iron as I did not like how it did not follow the exact profile of the roof. The first was done with multi cuts bent and welded...... but everytime I weld the cuts the heat buildup changes the profile........ so I cut out the flat curved portion.....carefully bent the angle to shape than plasma cut and fitted a separate piece of suitable flat stock.

Now facing a catch 22....... once the cab is installed I can no longer drive it into the sea container. unless I intend to stay in the cab....... there is not sufficient clearance for me to exit. Without the roof I climb over the back and walked out. So now I must cut a suitable hole in the side of the container that will allow me to swing out the suicide door wide enough for me to exit.

Plans are to cut the almost square hole....... than build a 2x2 thin wall tubing frame..... fabricate a door also of 2x2 and use the cut out container skin to finish the door. so I need to concentrate my efforts on the container while slowly progressing on the roof........... the butt weld on the roof skin will be a very time consuming operation of tack and hammer and grind and tack hammer and grind until done.

Will try to remember to take photos for posting.

Cheers
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  #60  
Old 11-07-17, 00:36
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Side Door

Hi Bob

I've seen pictures of side doors being cut into the side of the shipping containers to solve that problem. They just boxed the door opening with box tubing and hinged it out. Will look for photos. Guess the only problem is if you are renting the box the company get a little testy.

Cheers Phil
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