Centaur Mark IV data plate on eBay

[Keith Webb]

Just spotted this plate on eBay. The seller claims it is a genuine item with an interesting history:

British Cruiser Centaur Tank data plate. Came from France, a relative of a wartime free French member had it handed down to them with some other artefacts. What is interesting and collectible about this plate as it bears the same 'T' number as the tank in the featured photograph, from what I understand it was one of several Centaur 95mm Howitzer armed tanks that were landed on D Day to provide artillery support for the Royal Marines in the dash for Pegasus Bridge.

Interesting and unique artefact. Will clean up nicely with a little elbow grease.

I'd advise caution where provenance like this is a major selling point as it does add a lot of value to the price, so check carefully before bidding.




Link to auction

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Interesting item, seller is here on MLU, so he might be able to give more background.

Also, WD census number guru's like KevinT and Roddy1011 might be able to give some background info on the history of T185075.

H.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Also, WD census number guru's like KevinT and Roddy1011 might be able to give some background info on the history of T185075.

I think that actual tank is the one on a plinth at Hermanville, Normandy.

On checking, my memory has failed me, this tank was restored to represent the Royal Marines Centaur

[kevinT]

Because if it is that is the census number for SEAWOLF from 5th Independent Battery RMASG.

Kevin

[Richard Farrant]

This item for sale seems just a little too remarkable of a "find". A detail seen in the photo indicates it unlikely to have ever been fitted. Anyone else spotted it?

[David Herbert]

I see that the seller has withdrawn this plate from its Ebay sale.

Richard, what detail are you refering to? I have owned two Centaurs and have plates from two others in front of me now. The only inconcistancy that I see is that it was normal to stamp the date "January 1944" not "1 - 1944" but I can not say that it was never done that way. Most Centaur plates were cast brass, others like the one offered for sale were etched brass and therefore rather thinner but with exactly the same wording except for the "L.E.C.43" in the bottom RH corner (the plate maker?). Size was exactly the same.

The etched one that I have is from a Centaur dozer T185439. This actually carried three plates: the original tank (cast) one dated April 1944, the etched one identical to the one in the advert but dated November 1944, and then an etched one refering to "Centaur Bulldozer" and dated March 1945. They all have the same "T" no. and were removed by me from a wreck so I know that they are right. All four of the plates in front of me are stamped in the same font as the one for sale except one which is engraved in a smaller less ornate font.

Presumably there is some record of the fate of SEAWOLF but since there is such a need for people to pinch maker's plates from any big impressive machine it is not impossible that this plate has surfaced ?

David

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

Richard, what detail are you refering to? I have owned two Centaurs and have plates from two others in front of me now.

Hi David,
Given some doubt on authenticity of this, I notice the circular (punched?) marks have been made to the holes where the fixings were. Surely the marks would be concentric to the holes if genuine? Look at the bottom right one in particular.

[David Herbert]

Hi Richard,
Yes I questioned the very off center dent at the bottom RH hole too. I then looked at my plates, one of which is similar. The cause is that having failed to unscrew the round head 1/4 BSF screw I opted to knock off the head with a hammer and chisel (not very clever but I was younger then and very pushed for time). I was carefull to not mark the plate with the chisel but as the head moved sideways it tends to dig into the plate leaving that mark. I should add that although I think I know who the seller is I have no interest in the sale in any way other than a wish to establish the truth.

Happy Christmas and New Year everyone!
David

[Roddy de Normann]

Happy New Year to all...

Ref Centaur IV CS T-185075 I hold the fol:

T. 185075 - SEAWOLF
Centaur CS
Contracts M.1300 & T/11234-T/11243 to Leyland

S Tp, 5 Indep Bty, Royal Marine Armoured Support Group

29 Apr 44 - UK. Veh pictured while u/c 3 Inf Div on exercise - IWM pic H 37999


Hope this helps

Roddy