MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Softskin Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18-01-20, 14:57
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default C8A HUM census numbers?

Marty Morren is looking for a suitable census number for his C8A HUM.

Who can help with contract number & census number range?

Name:  B0C72D6F-B605-4E8F-980F-6C49A79A7B99.jpeg
Views: 354
Size:  105.0 KB Click image for larger version

Name:	666A9A65-D908-4A8B-9677-BE120346BD8C.jpeg
Views:	6
Size:	163.8 KB
ID:	111500

Click image for larger version

Name:	4E8271D3-DAA9-4412-8E39-B93D0010634D.jpeg
Views:	4
Size:	305.1 KB
ID:	111501 Click image for larger version

Name:	B25F9C42-026F-4126-BC3A-877BD36D7F5D.jpeg
Views:	4
Size:	309.8 KB
ID:	111502
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18-01-20, 22:28
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default Two possible lists

Hi Hanno

Two possible lists , Peter Ford, and John Merchant list. Though many of those are from existing vehicles. Will take look and see what numbers show up .
Cheers Phil


PS Is the serial or engine known both list have those as well so might find something closer.
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18-01-20, 22:51
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default HUM Serial numbers

Hi Phil,

The serial and engine numbers are:
Chassis: 3844515289
Engine: FR3918642
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_20200118_224431.jpg  
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19-01-20, 16:55
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Lv.1679

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Morren View Post
Hi Phil,

The serial and engine numbers are:
Chassis: 3844515289
Engine: FR3918642
Hello Marty,

LV.1679 was one of the contracts for C8A's, see Chevrolet Heavy Utility contracts.

Search this forum, and you'll find a few more C8A's supplied under that number.

HTH,
Hanno

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1186.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	38.6 KB
ID:	111515
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19-01-20, 17:08
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Chevrolet census numbers

Parts of David Hayward's site were copied to other sites, for Chevrolet census numbers see his page:

"ALLOCATION OF W.D. NUMBERS BY CENTRAL CENSUS TO 23RD NOVEMBER 1944 - CHEVROLET"
at http://www.gregwapling.com/hotrod/ch...t/warchev.html

Search for "C.8A"

HTH,
Hanno


Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23-01-20, 20:10
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default

Hi Hanno,

Thank you for sharing the link.
I'm sadly not able to get any meaningful info out of it though.
Searching fir the contract number also has not brought up anything solid.
Maybe I'm not looking good enough?
And maybe someone else has any info?

Cheers!
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23-01-20, 23:13
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Sm6407

Marty,

Following Bram Goudkuil's suggestion I searched on the RLC Archive (https://www.rlcarchive.org) and got a subscription to do some digging.

One contract I found was (corrected below is it was transcribed incorrectly in the RLCA database):
  • M 6230395 to M 6230594 SM6407 Chevrolet Car 4x4 Hvy., Utility
Click image for larger version

Name:	SM.6407 Chevrolet C8A.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	76.7 KB
ID:	111626

According to David Hayward SM6407 was an order for the C8A with 1C11 staff car body, so this number range would not really fit your C8A body style.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP) View Post
I wanted to stimulate a discussion about the very end of CMP production. The last known [to me] CMP was 1C11 STAFF CAR 4844521386 ENGINE # FR4,057,573 AUGUST 31 1945 to British order SM 6407.

HTH,
Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23-01-20, 23:22
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default

Hi Hanno,

Is M here the prefix as in CM? What does the M mean?
Also, I have to do some research on how the WD numbers work. I've not yet seen a number that started with 62.
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-01-20, 23:39
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Morren View Post
Hi Hanno,

Is M here the prefix as in CM? What does the M mean?
Also, I have to do some research on how the WD numbers work. I've not yet seen a number that started with 62.
Hi Marty,

Read for example https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/veh...lemarkings.htm > War Department/Census Numbers > Overseas

"M" stood for Car (staff car, jeep, etc.). As SM6407 was a British contract, they would not add the "C" in front as the Canadian Army did. Not a suitable census number range, as I said, we'll have to keep looking!

Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23-01-20, 23:45
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default

Thanks for the info!
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 23-01-20, 23:45
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

PS: also do some searching for threads with "census" in the title.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24-01-20, 22:39
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Canadian Army Overseas

This table of census numbers allocated to the Canadian Army Overseas narrows down your search:

Click image for larger version

Name:	55DF030F-66CD-4831-8742-68D6BA59F6DA.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	127.2 KB
ID:	111634
Source: Clive Law’s “Drive to Victory”
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24-01-20, 22:57
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default

So, guessing mine should have a somewhat similar number as the ZL in the first picture of this thread, it would be somewhere in the 4208201 - 4214200 range. Ths indeed does narrow it down!
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 25-01-20, 18:46
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default The Heavy Utility in Canadian Service

You may also want to contact the author of this book? Rob Clarke is a member of this forum.

https://servicepub.com/product/the-h...nadian-service

Click image for larger version

Name:	weaponsofwarheavyutilitybookreviewcs_.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	95.5 KB
ID:	111653
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 25-01-20, 19:22
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default

Great idea! Will do.

Thanks.
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26-01-20, 22:20
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default WD Census Numbers assigned to Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
This table of census numbers allocated to the Canadian Army Overseas narrows down your search:

Source: Clive Law’s “Drive to Victory”
The list can also be found on a cached copy of Clive Law's website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20171204...allocation.htm

HTH,
Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 21-08-20, 22:26
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default HUM in Italy

Couple of pictures of a (new to me) C8A HUM in the Piana Delle Orme Museum in Italy.

Courtesy of Pierre-Olivier Buan.

Click image for larger version

Name:	118104558_2741834399366128_6247975561264756389_n.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	79.8 KB
ID:	115657 Click image for larger version

Name:	118083307_2741834276032807_934754473713665286_n.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	94.3 KB
ID:	115658

Click image for larger version

Name:	118405159_1543753212464259_2563192694183352062_n.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	45.0 KB
ID:	115659 Click image for larger version

Name:	118303665_1543753365797577_584867870172780764_n.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	94.8 KB
ID:	115660
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 22-08-20, 15:19
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default List of known C8A HUM serial numbers

Marty, as discussed here is my list of known C8A HUM serial numbers. If you have anything to add to this list, please do.

Brian Gough may have more info too, have you asked him?

Chassis model | Cab Model | Chassis serial | Engine serial | Order no | Date of mfg | Vehicle model | Body Model | Body serial | Chrysler Serial-no | WD census no. | Source
C8A | 13 | 3844515289 | FR3918642 | LV.1697 | AUG. 12/43 | C.HU-441-M-PERS-1; 2nd plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1 | 1C1 | 3924 | MACH-ZL-1-068 | ... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ght=3844515289 (Marty Morren, NL)
C8A | 13 | ... |... |... |... |... |... |... |... | CZ4210145 | https://flic.kr/p/pkDhQh
C8A | 13 | 3844536668 | FR3969158 | LV.2611 | MAY 11/44 | ... | ... | ... | ... | ... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...36668#post9656
C8A | 13 | 3844536670 | FR3969311 | LV.2611 | MAY 11/44 |C-8A-MACH-ZL-2 | ... | ... | ... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...670#post174430 (Pieter Bergman, NL)
C8A | 13 | 3844536671 | FR3969368 | LV.2611 | MAY 11/44 | ... |... |... |... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...671#post129049 (Mark Coombs, USA)
C8A | 13 | 3844536688 | FR3969099 | LV.2611 | MAY 12/44 | ... |... |... |... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...36688#post9656
C8A | 13 | 3844536691 | FR3968926 | LV.2611 | MAY 15/44 | [plate missing] |1C1 | 6443 | ... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ght=3844536691 (ex-Shayne McGuire, CDN - current location u/k)
C8A | 13 | 3844536696 | FR3969103 | LV.2611 | MAY 15/44 | C-8A-MACH-ZL-2; 2nd plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1 | 1C1 | 6448 | MACH-ZL-1-087 | ... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ght=3844536696 (John Corden, UK)


Notes on data sources:


This information comes from the data plate on top of the dash, as fitted to all Chevrolets:
Chassis model | Cab Model | Chassis serial | Engine serial | Order no | Date of mfg
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190212_235220__01.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	603.5 KB
ID:	115668

The Vehicle model plate left of data plate on dash:
Vehicle model
Click image for larger version

Name:	Vehicle model plate sn 3844536670.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	192.2 KB
ID:	115685
Note: some have a second plate attached to the left of the Vehicle model plate during the conversion to HUM:
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190212_234950__01.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	599.7 KB
ID:	115667

The Body plate on rear of body - this plate was added to all C8A Heavy Utilities:
Body Model | Body serial
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190213_000627__01 (2).jpg
Views:	2
Size:	332.3 KB
ID:	115670

The Chrysler plate on rear of body - this plate was added during the conversion to HUM:
Chrysler Serial-no
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190213_000437__01 (2).jpg
Views:	2
Size:	320.9 KB
ID:	115669

The Number painted on the door:
WD census no.

And Information gleaned from an open source (most often this Forum):
Source

Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 23-08-20 at 10:00. Reason: added data and picture
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 23-08-20, 10:21
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default MACH-ZL Vehicle model plate research

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Morren View Post
Just to add to this thread, here are some photos of the data plates of this HUM.

[snip]

I am a bit puzzled about these though. While the Chevrolet plate says that this is a ZL-2, the Chrysler plate next to it clearly says ZL-1. I would love to see what other ZL-2s plates say. Maybe all Chrysler plates are ZL-1 and only the Chevrolet plates got the update?

Also interesting to note: My dash plate also has the C stamped in the upper half. It is stamped right on the 'M' from 'Vehicle Model'.
My observations: the Vehicle model plate is fitted to the left of the ID plate as on all Chevrolets. Two production HUMs have a Vehicle model plate denoting them as "C-8A-MACH-ZL-2", whicle the addtional plate lists "HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1" which is also fitted to (what is thought to be one of) the prototype HUMs. I do not know why they have these conflicting model plates.

See the pictures below:

S/n 3844515289
Vehicle model plate: C.HU-441-M-PERS-1
Additional Vehicle model plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1
Click image for larger version

Name:	C8A 3844515289 Vehicle model plate.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	599.7 KB
ID:	115719
S/n 3844536670
Vehicle model plate: C-8A-MACH-ZL-2
Additional Vehicle model plate: not present
Click image for larger version

Name:	C8A sn 3844536670 Vehicle model plate.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	192.2 KB
ID:	115720
S/n 3844536696:
Vehicle model plate: C-8A-MACH-ZL-2
Additional Vehicle model plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1
Click image for larger version

Name:	C8A sn 3844536696 vehilce model plate 1.jpeg
Views:	2
Size:	114.3 KB
ID:	115717 Click image for larger version

Name:	C8A sn 3844536696 vehilce model plate 2.jpeg
Views:	2
Size:	61.3 KB
ID:	115718
Another HUM I have viewed has the same Vehicle model plates as s/n 3844536696.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 24-08-20, 22:06
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default Interesting detail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
S/n 3844536696:
Vehicle model plate: C-8A-MACH-ZL-2
Additional Vehicle model plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1
Another HUM I have viewed has the same Vehicle model plates as s/n 3844536696.
Had the other HUM also a 'C' stamped on the 'M' of the Chrysler plate? 3844515289 and 3844536696 do, and it would be interesting to know if the other ones have this too.

Click image for larger version

Name:	2020-08-24 22_09_53-Photos.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	47.0 KB
ID:	115759 Click image for larger version

Name:	2020-08-24 22_10_58-Photos.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	115760
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM

Last edited by M.Morren; 24-08-20 at 22:11.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 24-08-20, 22:10
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Morren View Post
a 'C' stamped on the 'M' of the Chrysler plate?
Hi Marty,

Can you show me a picture? I am not sure what you mean?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24-08-20, 22:12
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Can you show me a picture? I am not sure what you mean?
I updated the post and added the pictures.
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24-08-20, 22:16
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Morren View Post
I updated the post and added the pictures.
I now see what you mean. Looks like the tried to alter "Model" into "Code"?

I'll see if I can see it on the other plate.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24-08-20, 22:18
M.Morren's Avatar
M.Morren M.Morren is offline
Marty Morren
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Otterlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 72
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Looks like the tried to alter "Model" into "Code"?
That was my guess as well. No idea why that would be necessary, but sure a fun little detail.
__________________
Marty Morren

My 1943 Chevrolet C8A HUM
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-09-20, 09:42
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Z-4228599

Pic of a C8A with census number Z4228599. Not a HUM, but it may help narrowing down the census number range:

Click image for larger version

Name:	37875C55-E663-4297-B437-B9771ACDA254.jpeg
Views:	6
Size:	141.3 KB
ID:	115963

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205205976
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-09-20, 13:28
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
GM Fox I
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,606
Default HUW Number

Original number found on a 1942 HUW in England. There was discussion but no resolution what the "T" meant.
Attached Thumbnails
CZ Number.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-09-20, 19:48
david moore david moore is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 351
Default HUP census numbers

From the list of vehicles of HQ 1st Can Army previously posted on this forum, I have kept a list of "HUP's" which may or may not include HUM's - it does include HUW's and HUA's - the relevant number ranges are as follows:
4213848 - 4214200
4228061 - 4229581
4236644 - 4236729

The total ranges may have been greater than this of course.

I don't think the Ford list has UK census numbers.Not in my copy at least.

By the way, the "M" prefix in the census lists stand for Motor car - let's remember English as she was spoke back then!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-09-20, 21:13
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
GM Fox I
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by david moore View Post

By the way, the "M" prefix in the census lists stand for Motor car - let's remember English as she was spoke back then!
"M" = Motor car
"L" = Lorry
"C" = (motor) Cycle (I get it...the M was already taken)

...but... "Z" = what? Zruck ????
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-09-20, 22:27
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,285
Default

Maybe Zpecial?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-09-20, 22:37
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Parker View Post
"M" = Motor car
"L" = Lorry
"C" = (motor) Cycle (I get it...the M was already taken)

...but... "Z" = what? Zruck ????
Must have been the same problem they had with US state abbreviations ....

https://youtu.be/dLECCmKnrys

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vehicle Census Numbers: Ford GPA? Ian Grieve The Softskin Forum 9 26-01-20 11:49
Census numbers for Ford LAAT Alastair Thomas The Softskin Forum 6 03-04-18 10:28
Ram WD census numbers servicepub (RIP) The Armour Forum 54 22-03-06 23:37
Census numbers lookups please David_Hayward (RIP) The Softskin Forum 1 23-10-05 18:16
WD / T / CT Census Numbers kevinT WW2 Military History & Equipment 5 14-10-03 00:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016