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Old 12-06-19, 14:16
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
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Default Ford flathead 8BA engine sump

Hi, Has anyone had experience in swapping an earlier flathead engine sump and putting it on an 8BA flathead?. The 8BA has a deeper sump and wont fit in a carrier without cutting a hole in the floor, so was thinking of putting a shallower sump on off an earlier style flathead.

thanks.
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1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo, under restoration.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone, under restoration.
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Last edited by kevin powles; 12-06-19 at 18:33.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-19, 22:52
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No, it won't interchange. The earlier engines have an integral bellhousing on the rear of the engine, and this is also present on the sump. The sump forms the lower attachment to the gearbox, and also mounts the starter motor. The 8BA engine uses a separate bellhousing, with a starter motor plate.

You've obviously got an engine already, but try to have a look around for other 8BA sumps. There were different styles for different models of cars, pickups and trucks. The "Pickup" style should enable the engine to have the correct arrangement and clearances to be a direct bolt-in swap for an earlier engine.

If you can't find an appropriate sump, you can use your (or someone else's! ) sheetmetal welding skills to shorten the depth of the pan and oil pickup tube.
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Old 13-06-19, 07:03
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kevin powles kevin powles is offline
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Thanks Tony, No I havenít bought the engine yet, but he has other earlier ones which I will probably go for instead. I think your suggestion of modifying the sump bottom would be the way forward if I bought it.

Whatís the going rate for a takeout flathead which runs in the UK?

Kevin
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2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008, (runner up 'Best Canadian Vehicle' at War and Peace 2013).
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009, under restoration.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo, under restoration.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone, under restoration.
1943 Centaur 6pdr Gun Tank under restoration.
6 pdr 1943 Anti Tank Gun. under restoration.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
World War II Movies
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  #4  
Old 13-06-19, 08:11
rob love rob love is offline
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I put an 8BA in my carrier. I simply cut a section out of the pan to make it higher. But even then, you will have to nip the engine rails a little to make it fit. You will want to use the truck water pups, and find the truck bellhousing.



There were a few other changes required, like finding a fan setup that would work. But when all was said and done, you get 15 more horsepower, easy access to the distributor, and unbelievable oil pressure. Mine starts by simply jogging the starter for a split second.
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Old 13-06-19, 08:22
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kevin powles kevin powles is offline
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Hi Rob,

Thanks, he wants £1800 for it, i've heard it run ok, he wants £1200 for an earlier one which will fit, runner but not heard. Modifying the 8BA sump wont be an issue.

Kevin.
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2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008, (runner up 'Best Canadian Vehicle' at War and Peace 2013).
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009, under restoration.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo, under restoration.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone, under restoration.
1943 Centaur 6pdr Gun Tank under restoration.
6 pdr 1943 Anti Tank Gun. under restoration.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
World War II Movies
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  #6  
Old 13-06-19, 10:05
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I believe the English Carrier engines are more closely related to an earlier V8 engine (37-LB) than the CMP or Australian Carrier engines (99A), but for our purposes the sumps on the two types are close enough to discuss them as the same.

There are other small, but significant differences with installing a 99A pan to an 8BA engine besides the integral bellhousing.

As can be seen from the comparison of the sump gaskets, there is a small difference with position of bolt holes around the rear crank flange. The 8BA uses a modern or "Conventional" rear flange seal (although it was an radical innovation at the time) and has two bolt either side of the crank flange. The 99A and earlier engines have an inefficient (but typical of the period) seal system using a cup and wick arrangement, and the pan is designed around this system.

The 99A engine also has a valve chamber positive ventilation setup that is quite differnt to the 8BA. The 99A has an internal draft tube from the valve chamber, down the inside of the block to the sump. In the sump chamber, the tube is positioned next to a bulge on the sump pan that is sealed from the engine oil. This bulge has a vent on in that is designed so that when the engine fan is running or the vehicle moving forward, a venturi effect creates a vacuum to draw vapours out of the engine. The 8BA did away with this internal tube by fitting a draft tube direct to the exterior of the inlet manifold that ran down the outside of the engine.
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Old 13-06-19, 10:14
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And before we get that far, is there actually a problem with the 8BA sump?

I measured the 99A sump to be 8 1/4" from the gasket surface to clear of the drain plug, while 2 of the 8BA engines I measured have a sump depth of just a tad over 8", marginally better than the 99A. The 2 engines I measured are Canadian 1951 C1BA blocks with car sump pans. Admittedly, these place the drain plug in a different location to the 99A sump, which might present a problem in a Carrier hull, but I'm sure there will be a version of an 8BA sump pan with the same drain location as the 99A pan.
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Old 13-06-19, 15:11
rob love rob love is offline
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I would suggest the 8BA you are showing Tony is a car engine, while the engine Kevin has shown is a truck engine. Likely a deeper sump on the truck engine. Perhaps installing a car sump onto a truck engine, or conversely installing a truck bellhousing and water pumps onto a car engine is the solution.



When I did mine, it was supposed to be a shortcut instead of rebuilding the original carrier engine. In the end I think it worked out to a lot more time to install than I expected, but as mentioned, it is a very strong, reliable engine.



Kevin: Your figures of £1200 and £1800 for flatheads seems a little outrageous for over here. Running flatheads can still be had for $200 to $800 Canadian pesos. Often you end up buying the whole truck (civilian or farm truck) for thos prices to get the engine, then get some funds back when you sell the remaining truck off to a restorer.
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Old 13-06-19, 20:19
Petr Brezina Petr Brezina is offline
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Kevin, check my thread, there is also a bit info regarding oil sump. I had to also handle with it.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...t=21393&page=4
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