Lebanon Crisis-Evacuation

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

What say you fellow MLU'ers about the rescue of our fellow Canadians ??

[Ponysoldier]

The one thing Im hearing that I dont like is, that is by far to
slow.
Patrick

[Gordon Yeo]

The curious thing is that the numbers of people to be rescued are in the 10's of thousands. So how many of them are on holidays. How many are in temporary work assignments. How many have gone back to Lebanon to live permanently or until things get too hot and the Canadian tax payer has to pull their "chesnut out of the fire" all the while whining about how poorly they are beening treated.

[chris vickery]

Hear hear, Gordon!
I fully concur that many of these so-called Canadians are foreigners who came here, claimed refugee status, waited long enough to get a citizenship and went back.
These people, as far as I am concerned, are nothing more than a burden on OUR society who wishes are to exploit the Canadian taxpayers for social, welfare and health care benefits.
Its about time that the taxpayer sound off to the government that this policy is NOT acceptable.
If you emmigrate to Canada and want to obtain a citizenship, you should have to live here, unless that is that you have a work assignment overseas or a justifiable reason for a prolonged stay.
I`m sure many of these persons go back to their homeland to live well reaping whatever handouts they can get from us, such as when they get ill and need medical care not available at "home". Not to mention a nice new Canadian Passport to be able to travel freely and have the protection of OUR government...
I fully believe too, that many of these immigrants come here with full intentions of sending bags of money back home to help "family". I think the word "family" is an acronym for some of the many terrorist organizations we are trying to fight against.

During a recent conversation with the owner of the local gas bar (who happens to be Lebanese), I asked about the situation over there and why the locals don`t put a stop to Hezzbolah.
She answered me by saying that nobody knows who they are and the locals don`t support them. Bullshit I say. You know who and what your neighbours do.
The fact of the matter is that the Lebanese government and army are puppets controlled by Hezzbolah, who, in turn, are run by the Syrians.

In closing, I say that our Prime Minister should stay out of this mess if he knows whats good for Canada, and to those who are stupid enough to stay there when fighting breaks out, tough shit. Figure it out...

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

The P.M. is flying into Cyprus to help aid people fleeing from Lebanon.How many seats on a Forces airbus ??

[Snowtractor]

Isn't Lebanon still on the Canadian diplomatic service warning list against travelling there? So lets see suposedly Canada is "one" of your countries and your "Country" has issued a warning against travel to this disputed area. So why should we pull anyone's fat out of the fire ,regardless if Canada is one of your countries, when you were told not to go?
On a separate note, I certainly would not endanger my child by travelling to such a country, family or not. They can meet us in a neutral country. And by knowingly taking your children to a "no go " area , shouldn't that be child endangerment and why aren't they charged.
Sean

[Snowtractor]

Here is one little excerpt from the Can/Gov website amongst much more , and the warnings have heightened in the last week.




There is an increased threat of terrorism in Lebanon due to heightened tensions and an ongoing political crisis. A series of targeted bombings and grenade attacks have taken place in different areas of Beirut since February 2004, injuring dozens and resulting in several deaths. The largest of these bombings took place on February 14, 2005, killing former Prime Minister Rafic Hariri and several others. Massive public protests in Beirut, Saidon, and other cities, both for and against the Syrian military presence in Lebanon, were followed by Syria's removal of its forces from Lebanon in April 2005.

On February 5, 2006, a large and violent demonstration took place in Achrafieh, a district of Beirut. Canadians should avoid large gatherings and demonstrations, pay close attention to their personal security, and monitor the media for updates.

Heightened tensions throughout the region, together with increased threats globally from terrorism, put Canadians at greater risk. Canadians should be aware of the global risk of indiscriminate terrorist attacks, including those against civilian targets, such as pedestrian promenades, shopping malls, open markets, restaurants, discotheques, cinemas, and other places frequented by foreigners. Canadians should maintain a high level of personal security awareness at all times, as the security situation could deteriorate rapidly without notice. Exercise appropriate caution in large gatherings and crowded places. Canadians should monitor local developments and register and remain in regular contact with the Embassy of Canada in Beirut or Foreign Affairs Canada (call collect 613-996-8885).

The violence in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza has raised the possibility of demonstrations in support of Palestinians throughout the Middle East and elsewhere in the world. While Lebanese authorities have acted to prevent demonstrations from becoming violent, the potential for further protests remains high. Security conditions remain unpredictable. Canadian travellers should follow events closely, remain alert to the changing situation, exercise appropriate caution, avoid demonstrations, and take appropriate measures to maintain their security. These measures include being aware of one's surroundings and keeping a low profile. Canadians should listen to and observe all warnings issued by Lebanese authorities and take appropriate precautions. Lebanon is subject to Israeli overflights breaking the sound barrier, causing sonic booms that can be confused with the sound of detonation.

________________________________________________

The Hezbollah maintains a presence in the south and several other areas, including the Bekaa Valley. Forces other than the Lebanese military exert a large amount of control in certain areas, especially in the Bekaa Valley and in southern Lebanon.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

CTV News just interviewed a Montreal man of Lebanese origin.His wife and two young daughters can't get out of Lebanon.The reason for his wife's visit ?? To baptize their youngest in Lebanon.I guess we can call this one a baptism of fire.

[Pedr]

Isn't it funny that once again Australia is in exactly the same position as Canada - thousands of reported "tourists and residents visiting family" now caught up in this bullshit that seems to originate somewhere around the borders of Israel.

Personally I blame the British!! - they never should have annexed Israel, as it seems that from the first day subsequent there have been dissagreements over whom owns what.

Ofcourse the Arabic peoples of this area are going to respond.

You kill my family, blow up my neighbourhood, bulldoze my home, take potshots at my kids in their school and then get surprised when I strap on a bomb, get on your bus and blow us all to buggery. - GO FIGURE HEY.

Isn't it amazing how the President of the United States has condemned the Lebanese actions but has not asked the Israeli's to stop their attacks -- WHY IS THIS???? HAS AMERICA VESTED INTERESTS IN ISRAEL???

but everything you blokes have said is so true. If you ain't from there and things look bad. You paid to get there, I didn't make you go there, so you get your self outta there, and I ain't paying.

And to make it worse, apparently Canada and Australia double booked the same ferry to get our nationals out of this little fracas.


Pedr

seems they aren't fantastic at parking tanks either

[Tony Smith]

Thank goodness for Tabloid Newspapers and Shock-Jock Radio.

Just 8 short months ago, some of the more reactionary media in Australia was calling for citizens of middle-eastern descent to decide if they could ever accept the Australian culture of Beer, BBQ's and Beaches, and if they couldn't, to "go back to where they came from".

Now, those same media commentators are criticising the Government for not doing enough to help the "Aussies" stranded in Lebanon. (Presumably it's only the Christian Lebanese they want back?)

In the latest development, a ship chartered by the Govt to ferry 300 Australians to safety in Cyprus was "Hi-jacked" by the UN, who had paid more to the shipowners than that offered by the Aust Govt. As the 300 evacuees waited on the docks to board the SS E-bay, shelling was heard about 1km away. "This is all the fault of the Australian Government, they have done nothing to help us get out of Lebanon" one evacuee was quoted as saying. I find it curious that they didn't use the words ".. help us get home". Despite that, I find some of the images coming out of Lebanon shocking, and fail to see how they reconcile with Israel's stated aim of releasing the captured soldiers.

It's a funny old world we live in.

[Pedr]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
waited on the docks to board the SS E-bay

Love it Tony!!

Pedr

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Pedr
Personally I blame the British!! - they never should have annexed Israel, as it seems that from the first day subsequent there have been dissagreements over whom owns what.

Pedr

Only the British? You might recall that Australia was intimately involved in breaking 400 years of Ottoman (Turkish) rule over the Middle East and were to be counted amongst the first Christian Army to re-enter Jerusalem since the Crusades. Places such as Gaza, El-Arish, Beersheba and Ramallah feature as much in WW1 ANZAC legends as they do in today's headlines. In WW2, Australia also fought the Vichy French in what is today's Lebanon and Syria.

[Pedr]

Point taken...you are right ofcourse.

I would have thought though, that once the Jews were given their promised land they would live all happily like they did for hundreds of years before in the holy lands.

otherwise we should arm the Arabs and point the way to Israel.....no...hang on... .. that doesn't work either. Just ask America about the Iran Iraq crap.

Pedr :dh:

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

It's just been reported that our two slow governments (Canada and Australia) have agreed that we will help evacuate Auzzies/Kiwis stuck in Lebanon.The problem is gov't red tape.God bless burocracy
G'day mates

[alleramilitaria]

i think its a lot more complicated than it seems.

1. there are way too many dumb asses in the world " hey kids lets go to the mid east for vacation". what ever happened to the darwin awards?

2. there are only soo many beds and food in cyprus and if you move 100,000 people there with no food or water you would be on the BBC and CNN with pictures just like at the supper dome in neworleans last year.

3. the IDF is being specific about where it hits and how it hits. it even warns the residents via the media and leaflets prior to hitting areas.

4. if you have thousands of americans, brits, aussies, ets all together ... you are just waiting for a bad thing to happen. what would stop the hesbula from dropping a rocket on them and saying it was the IDF? nothing.

5. it may be slow but now there are NATO, US, RN, and other combat ships to back up the civilian ships in port. there is a real fear that the civ ships will be hit by mad hesbula or leb forces. again it would be blamed on the IDF. could you imagen the press if a ship went down with 1000 children at night? al-quida is in leb and ready to strike if it sees a good soft target.

6. leb media is being increadably stupid. they are clameing that the IDF is useing nerv gas and WP rounds in southern leb. also a F-16 was shot down and the IDF is targeting school busses.

im sure that everyone who wants to get out will, everyone justs needs to take a deep breath, chill, and give the IDF a free hand to do the house cleaning that the EU,UN, LEB, NATO, AL, and US were suposed to do in the first place (disarm all non government militaries).

[chris vickery]

It seems to me, that throughout history, "God's chosen people, the Jews", have always been persecuted wherever they are.
We all know about the Egyptians who drove them into slavery, the Nazis that tried to eliminate them etc etc. For whatever reasons, they always seem to have a rough go of things wherever they are.
I must agree that the British who annexed Israel in the 1940`s, certainly did a disservice to world peace.
The Jews and Arabs have been natural enemies forever, and why would you give them their homeland back, especially in the middle of a bunch of angry Muslims?
I can only conclude that for the Americans, of which the US Government has many pro-Israeli politicians, that it is of stratigic importance in the region. Thats it thats all.
The Israelis are merely in power because the Amercans let them be- they are an ally and key player in this area.
God forbid that Syria decide to help out their brothers in Lebanon as it will certainly be a fight for the yanks... The Syrians are not the same as the Iraqis or Afghans.

[alleramilitaria]

just read a post on CNN.com from a "abandend" canadian stuck in lebinan. he posted that all the government has to do is get the "fleet" from halafax to leb. and get all the canadians out and sail them back to canada in a day or two. its just so simple.

by the way the president of iran has said more than once that all the US has to do to fix the situation in the mid east is to give the jews some land in canada to move to and everything will be fine?!?!?!?!?



you just cant fix stupid

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Pedr


Personally I blame the British!! - they never should have annexed Israel, as it seems that from the first day subsequent there have been dissagreements over whom owns what.


Pedr

A few historical points: The U.K. received a mandate from the League of Nations right after WWI to adminster Palestine. In 1947 the United Nations voted to partition Palestine and an Arab, Jewish, and an International zone encompassing Bethlehem and Jerusalem were formed. The British did their darnedest to keep Jews and weapons from continuing to arrive in Palestine and were only too happy to get the heck out of there. The Arab League refused to go along with the U.N. plan in any event and that resulted in the Arab/Jewish war of 1948, which the Arabs lost. The Arabs get their courage up every once in a while hence the 6 Day War and the Yom Kippur War. The state of Israel is now a fact and is not going to go away. Tired of getting their butts kicked in conventional warfare, Hezbollah, Hamas, et al have resorted to terrorism to justify their existences. I've travelled extensively throughout Israel, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Only one of those countries is a modern, progressive, democratic state. The other three are backwards, dirty, and poor. I'm sure Allah is proud of his children.

[Gordon Yeo]

Well Derek I'm not sure if Allah is proud of His children, but by now it must be abundantly clear to Him they have s--t for brains.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

These arabs are killing each other.They hit Nazareth today with rockets,a predominantly ARAB town.Go figure !!

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by sapper740
A few historical points: The U.K. received a mandate from the League of Nations right after WWI to adminster Palestine. In 1947 the United Nations voted to partition Palestine and an Arab, Jewish, and an International zone encompassing Bethlehem and Jerusalem were formed. The British did their darnedest to keep Jews and weapons from continuing to arrive in Palestine and were only too happy to get the heck out of there. The Arab League refused to go along with the U.N. plan in any event and that resulted in the Arab/Jewish war of 1948, which the Arabs lost. The Arabs get their courage up every once in a while hence the 6 Day War and the Yom Kippur War. The state of Israel is now a fact and is not going to go away. Tired of getting their butts kicked in conventional warfare, Hezbollah, Hamas, et al have resorted to terrorism to justify their existences. I've travelled extensively throughout Israel, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Only one of those countries is a modern, progressive, democratic state. The other three are backwards, dirty, and poor. I'm sure Allah is proud of his children.

Derek: You beat me to it with your response to Vickery's post.

Let's not forget the actions of the Irgun and the Haganah (terrorist Jewish groups who killed Brits)...also, let's recall the King David barrel bomb disaster. (Read, and heed, your history lessons!)

The Israelis don't have lily-white hands.

It was the Sykes-Picot Treaty which, in 1919, decided that there would be a Jewish homeland this, as a sidebar to the Treaty of Versailles.

So a Brit and French bureaucrat decided the future of the Middle East. By 1948, some 400,000 Arabs were displaced from their homelands in which they had lived for 1000's of years, in order that the UN could exercise its mandate to provide a homeland for Jews who flocked from their diaspora to the "Promised Land".

So, based on the above, why do you think that the Arabs are so mightily pissed off? Would not you, under the same circumstances?


Better get off my soap box...could go on...Derek, like you, I've done my time in the Middle East and, like you, can much better appreciate the situation than most chairborne diplomats here at home.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Only the British? You might recall that Australia was intimately involved in breaking 400 years of Ottoman (Turkish) rule over the Middle East and were to be counted amongst the first Christian Army to re-enter Jerusalem since the Crusades. Places such as Gaza, El-Arish, Beersheba and Ramallah feature as much in WW1 ANZAC legends as they do in today's headlines. In WW2, Australia also fought the Vichy French in what is today's Lebanon and Syria.

In fact, Australia's WW1 involvement wasn't just restricted to the Sinai and Palestine. Australian troops were also attached to the British and Indian Armies campaign to attack Turkey along the Euphrates river in Mesopotamia. The first Australian airman to die in the AFC (now RAAF) didn't die on the Western Front, but died after his aircraft force landed between Basra and Nasiriyah on 30 Jul 1915. Although his aircraft landed safely, he and his NZ observer were set upon by a hostile Bedouin tribe and killed. Lieutenant George Merz (AU) and Lieutenant William Burn (NZ) are remembered on the Commonwealth War Memorial in Basra. This memorial was moved in 1997 by Saddam Hussein. It is interesting to note that Lt Merz was dux of the first Flying School at Pt Cook, and Lt Burn was the ONLY qualified pilot in the NZ services!

The whole region liberated from Ottoman rule in WW1 has hardly known any peace and stability since 1915. While the Turks had some problems maintaining administrative control over their large empire, there was never any risks of racial or religious uprisings, and the region lived in harmony, if not prosperity. In fact these tensions have only come about since the 1921 Balfour Mandate carved up the territories into inappropriate "Nations" such as Israel, Syria, Iraq and Jordan. All of these countries have suffered from political, military and religious problems ever since. Israel has found that instabily in it's neighbors has served it's own self-defence well, and has not done much to promote development of good government and prosperity in the region. I say give it all back to the Turks and say sorry!

[alleramilitaria]

the people there life for hate. hate of the west, the east, the evile russians, the jews, other muslems, the dirty aribs, the filthy persions, the sunies, the shiets, the kurds, the turks, etc.... the entire region has been turned upside down not by the west or any other force, but by themselvs. there is not nor has there ever been a muslem country, kingdom, etc that was not ruled by bloodshead, fear, or war. untill we can stabalise iraq then we will not see a middle east without war. the UN, EU, US and others need to first put in stone that the palistian situition IS now solved and if they want to fight with the jews then they should expect to be treated like a country and expect carpet bombing, MLRS strikes, and POW camps. iran needs to become a protectorit of the UN. and siria needs to become another kosovo with waves of NATO aircraft blasting anything that moves. thats the only way things are going to change. we are going to need to show that we are not kidding, not bogged down, not playing, and not going to take any more bull s%$t. main land europe (minus the dutch and polish) need to get off there ass and help win this war and fast or we will be talking about gas at 5 EURO a ltr, or more. we will see london, frankfort, brussels, mons, madrid and other cities under muslem control (forget france, they love surendering). the only way to take care of one of these slime bags (extreamest muslems) is to inforce the geneva convention by executing them or POW camps for the rest of there lives. if you let them go they will try to kill again (about 20% of prisnors from GITMO are recaptured on battlefields in iraq or afghanistan).

just my thoughts

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Boy ! These people have balls.They complain about no transport.We send ships in to get them.They complain about the ships.Oh , by the way they all speak english with arabic accents !! Canadians ?? EXCUSE ME PONTIAC. How come these immigrants know how to shout loudest at OUR government,while we naturally born Canucks have to pay for french language lessons,they get them free,then take our damn jobs.GO FIGURE !!
AND, as of five PM EDT.they're still bitching about OUR government on network TV news.I say don't come here.End of argument.

Talk about using a nation to their advantage.
End of rant.Happy Hour=time for a cold beer.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by chris vickery

God forbid that Syria decide to help out their brothers in Lebanon as it will certainly be a fight for the yanks... The Syrians are not the same as the Iraqis or Afghans.

Sorry, got to disagree with you. Syria couldn't defeat Israel in 1973 when they had the latest Russian equipment, Israel was fighting on two fronts, and Syria had the element of surprise as they attacked on the holiest day of the Jewish year when the I.D.F. was least prepared. Today, the I.D.F. has more and better equipment while Syria maintains an obsolete force of Cold War Russian armour. The few Mig 29's Syria has wouldn't last an afternoon in Israeli skies. Quite frankly, it would be a cake walk for the Israelis.

CHIMO!

[alleramilitaria]

syria fight ?????
really do you want to see a distroyed military that badly? the few MIG 29s would not even get into the air, the SU-22s would maybe last 1 day due to there numbers. the only weapon that the syrians have are the SS-1s and other rockets that are spread out. the armored divisions would be distroyed befor they could reach the golan heights. the IDF has held back so much of there forces and have not shown what they can do..... yet

and the iraqi army is now in a position to take over the syrian border positions that are supplying the insurgants, and they have threatend to do so.

[Snowtractor]

Watching the national news last night, couldn't tell you whether it was CBC or CTV they play recorded call in comments at the end of the show. NOt one was pro evacuation. The majority were, "they put themselves in this place, they should get themselves out", and "are they Canadians of convenience or Lebanese of convenience or what, pick a country".
Sean

[mike mckinley]

since when is it the canadian governments responsibility to bail out a bunch of people, who went there of their own free will, knowing fully how unstable things could become? it's not ours, nor anyone else's problem, and as far as this taxpayer is concerned, their fate should be the result of their choice and not the burden of canadians. choice, yes, they, courtesy of Canada, have been given the best of both worlds. they come here and take advantage of every program they can, costing the taxpayer a bloody fortune, and putting a huge strain on everything from education, medicare, not to mention " visible minority = gets the job" . once they suck up all they can for free, and just at that time when they should begin thinking about giving some back, head back to where they came from to live, which in my opinion is the same as highway robbery. things start getting bad back home in the dirt pile and it's time to play the "canadian citizen" card and steal from canada some more, and of course, Noah himself couldn't get a ship there fast enough, or it isn't comfortable enough, or the food isn't gourmet . so, folks, today is a sad day for true canadians....true canadians are canadians all the time, from birth to death, not just canadian when it suit's them, and at our expense mike


UPDATE: just reading the up date on the evacuation from the msn newspage, where one, "canadian citizen" states that anyone trying to get out should try another way, because the efforts of the canadian government are horrible, no water, people vomiting, and being forced to sleep on the ships' decks........boo hoo, it's only the largest evacuation in canadian history with limited resources and no time to spare.......ungrateful b@#tards

[chris vickery]

Mike M et al;
I know first hand how these a-holes think. I worked with one at ABB for 5 years, actually I worked with many but was enlightened by one on many occasions as to the mindset of their people.
First off, he was allowed as were his peers to have extra breaks to accomodate the holy prayers to Allah during the day.
He mentioned many times how he was making money to go back to Lebanon and at this time he was only here to do so and have his family educated and taken care of by our excellent health care system. His children only went to Islamic schools of course to learn the way of his people, God forbid he have them integrated into Canadian Culture. It was interesting though that as a Muslim, he would gladly take the paid vacation days off from work that are grated to us Christian Canadian people ( things like Christmas etc)
Rant over

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

On the news one man says that they're all Lebanese with Canadian passports,and if they don't like it,turn im the passports and stop complaining.We're not responsible for your national problems !!

I say "Hear,Hear " to the gentleman.