Help ID this limber

rob love · #1 07-11-11, 06:09

Out at my favorite scrapyard again this weekend, and I dug out of the ground what I had hoped was going to be a gun carriage. Nope, more like some kind of limber. Markings on the hitch suggest RCD (Royal Carriage Department) with a date of 1-1896. Here are a few shots of it during the recovery.

A number of cast brackets and footman loops were found in the earth from where the wood had decomposed. There was a large bracket at the front that I thought was with the carriage (4th photo) but it turned out it was just a German 20mm flak gun receiver buried in the mud.

rob love · #2 07-11-11, 06:14

Here are some shots of the limber sitting in my workshop floor. There is some decomposition of the metal, but overall it should turn out OK, especially considering it's storage conditions.

The last two shots are of the markings found on the hitch.

So can anyone ID these remains?

rob love · #3 08-11-11, 17:09

I went to the Shilo museum yesterday and got the answer to my question. I was there to get some photos of the C1 howitzer they have and asked what they had for limbers. Clive took me to the far end of the building where this resided under a tarp.

It is identical to the one I got. I even recognise the various cast brackets and footman loops I found in the ground. Obviously I have to do a bit more digging yet to get everything.

The wheels are much more complex than the farm wagon wheels that are so commonplace around here. This limber is a bit out of my normal collecting range, so I am not sure what to do with it. I may do a quick restore in the spring and put it out front for a lawn ornament.

derk derin · #4 09-11-11, 05:58

Rob,
Did Clive identify what gun the limber was for?
Does this mean you will have to get a team of horses to pull it around the yard?
Derk.

Tony Smith · #5 09-11-11, 06:26

The wheels (and the condition) look very similar to my 18pdr limber. Body construction and date is quite different, meaning it is not an 18pdr, but just commenting on the wheel's construction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

The wheels are much more complex than the farm wagon wheels that are so commonplace around here.

They're are actually a simpler design than regular cart wheels. They are designed to bolt together, so that if an individual spoke or felloe is shot away, it can be replaced relatively easily. Regular wagon wheels of the period relied on heating the iron tyre and when cooled, it compressed all the spokes to give an even pre-load tension on the wheel. It was a novel design of the period, and later was adopted on early motor cars with timber spoked wheels as an "Artillery wheel"

You will note the axle ends are bent downwards slightly at the ends. This is correct! Don't straighten them!!

It relates to a design feature called a "Plumb spoke" that helps to keep the Limber tracking true between the horse team and gun, much like toe-in and camber on a modern vehicle.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #6 09-11-11, 06:35

Hi Tony - where have you been, I have missed you and your knowledge.

Bob

Alex Blair (RIP) · #7 09-11-11, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Hi Tony - where have you been, I have missed you and your knowledge.

Bob

Are you the REAL Tony Smith..and If you are what have you done with "NOT the Real Tony Smith.."????

rob love · #8 12-11-11, 01:14

That style a wheel may be easy to repair, but since I have nothing to start with, and the retainers appear to be cast, I would have preferred the regular old west wagon wheels. Guess I will have to hunt around the salvage yard in the spring and see if he has anything for old RCD wheels.

Derk: I believe he had the limber with an old 9pdr, but he could not say for certain that the limber originally belonged to that gun. Over the years the museum has acquired guns and limbers form a few sources, including the RCMP.

Mike Cecil · #9 20-11-11, 03:16

Looks very much like the limber frame for a late model B.L. 15-pdr, such as the Mark IV. I think the date is about right for that weapon, too.

If so, it takes the No.35A type artillery wheel: double spoked (ie two offset lines at the hub flange), 14 each wheel. Flange is stamped from Mild Steel with bracing on both the inner and outer flange plates. Tyre was Mild Steel five inches wide by 5/8 inches thick. Total weight was said to be 197 pounds.

Have fun with the restoration!

Mike C