Chassis winch in 15-cwt chassis

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here is another 15-cwt truck, a Ford in this case, with a chassis winch.

"Original" according to the owner. Original winch, sure, but original fitment, no. Unless it once was an FGT chassis?

[Grant Bowker]

The chassis also looks to have the brackets for the auxiliary/helper/overload springs that were not fitted to F15A according to the parts books.

[Ken Smith]

The helper spring brackets are upside down and are bolted in so not original.

Ken

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Grant, Ken, well spotted, thanks.

So it looks to be a 15-cwt chassis with winch and other bits added.

H.

[Pete Ashby]

I've come across this once before.

I have a vague memory that stop gap 12 cab 2pdr Anti tank portees were fitted with winches most were then reconfigured late in the war back to GS bodied versions but kept the winches

Pete

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Pete Ashby

I've come across this once before.

I have a vague memory that stop gap 12 cab 2pdr Anti tank portees were fitted with winches most were then reconfigured late in the war back to GS bodied versions but kept the winches

Hello Pete,

Could you eloborate on this vague memory? As far as I know, the 2-pdr AT Portees did not have a chassis winch but a small hand driven winch - see below.

Post-war, many 15-cwt trucks were fitted with a chassis winch, of which I think this is an example.

Always willing & able to be educated!

Thanks,
Hanno

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

The body remaining on the ground in front of the truck appears to be (without the crane) the remains of the original portee bodywork (eg the small hand driven winch, the hinges on top of the guards), indicating this vehicle wasn't converted to GS spec.

[Pete Ashby]

I'll try and find the reference Hanno, it may have been in a Wheels and Tracks sometime after the article about portees.

Like you we couldn't decide if the remains of the truck was a factory fit or a post war mod it was not a bodge job but properly fitted unfortunately I don't have any photos of it.

Pete

[Rob Baens]

hi guys,

But if you closely to the backend of the chassis the crossmember does look like the ones used on FGT's. So would it be possible that this is? a FGT chassis were they fitted a normal 13 pattern cab and cargo box on? probably a post war job. just suggestion...

greetings Rob

[Alex van de Wetering]

I can't see the fuel tanks in the picture....even though tanks can be swapped, a FAT would originally have had the larger fuel tanks, while the F15A used the smaller ones.

But if you closely to the backend of the chassis the crossmember does look like the ones used on FGT's

Yes, it does seem to have the extra strengthening for the winch gear at the rear of the chassis.....but than again....this could also be retrofitted along with the winch(?). A FAT would also have the fairleads on the front bumper and also the little hooks for the scotches fitted to the side of the chassis near the leaf spring attachment.

Fitting a winch and helper springs to an F15A chassis would have made it an ideal towing vehicle for a garage.....which to me, is the most likely explanation.

Alex

[Rob Baens]

that's very clear and logical talking. And don't forget that they were very creatif in those days.

greetings Rob

[Pete Ashby]

I may have been thinking of this thread perhaps ?
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8997 however I thought I'd seen a written reference somewhere I'll keep looking.

At this stage (something like 20 years ago) I can't remember if the remains of the one I found had 60cwt axles however it was definitely a 12 cab on a 15cwt wheel base with the remains of a GS body it certainly didn't appear like a reworked GT.

Pete

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the input. But to my knowledge, no 15-cwt chassis were fitted with a chassis winch at the factory or assembly plant during WW2.

All the 15-cwt chassis with winches I have seen, turned out to be modified ones. With the abundance of spares available post-war, a chassis winch is a likely/ useful addition for a skid logger, garage tow truck, etc. Plus it is mostly a bolt-in conversion. But the available evidence shows these were post-war civilian conversions, and not part of the original configuration of this type of truck.

I would like to challenge the membership to come up with source material supporting the chassis winch being a factory option for 15-cwt chassis during WW2. Note that in the case of the CGT Portee and Polsten AA truck, source material mentions a winch - but these are hand winches, not chassis winches as covered here.

HTH,
Hanno

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Thanks for all the input. But to my knowledge, no FORD 15-cwt chassis were fitted with a chassis winch at the factory or assembly plant during WW2.

All the 15-cwt chassis with winches I have seen, turned out to be modified ones.

I would like to challenge the membership to come up with source material supporting the chassis winch being a factory option for 15-cwt chassis during WW2. Note that in the case of the CGT Portee and Polsten AA truck, source material mentions a winch - but these are hand winches, not chassis winches as covered here.

I understand that C15A's have the chassis mounts fitted for a winch, but it was not usual for an actual winch to be installed. The 42 cab Portees are as such, and this another point that muddies the waters over the old 15cwt or 60cwt chassis question.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

I understand that C15A's have the chassis mounts fitted for a winch, but it was not usual for an actual winch to be installed. The 42 cab Portees are as such, and this another point that muddies the waters over the old 15cwt or 60cwt chassis question.

With mounts you mean the winch crossmember, as per Tony Wheeler's remark?:

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Getting back to your question Hanno - the CGT frame is nothing more than a C15A frame. Unlike the FGT frame, which is a modified F15A frame, there's no difference between the CGT and C15A frame. Likewise throughout the whole CMP 4x4 range, because unlike Ford frames, all Chev frames were built with a winch crossmember.

If Chevrolet standardised the 101-inch wb chassis, it could be used to either assemble a CGT or a 15-cwt truck. As per the manual, the chassis winch was only "optional equipment on C30, C60S, C60L":

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I just looked up some more facts in the Chevrolet MB-C2 maintenance manual and list my findings here:
[snip]

Winch:
Standard on CGT, supplied as optional equipment on C30, C60S, C60L.
[snip]

Being standardized, it would be easy to bolt in a winch after military service, which explains why we come across them quite often - but they are not part of the original configuration of the 15-cwt truck.

- Hanno

[Pete Ashby]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

With mounts you mean the winch crossmember, as per Tony Wheeler's remark?:



If Chevrolet standardised the 101-inch wb chassis, it could be used to either assemble a CGT or a 15-cwt truck. As per the manual, the chassis winch was only "optional equipment on C30, C60S, C60L":


Being standardized, it would be easy to bolt in a winch after military service, which explains why we come across them quite often - but they are not part of the original configuration of the 15-cwt truck.

- Hanno

Agreed Hanno,

however when they turn up they are invariably professionally fitted not some after thought bolt on by a farmer.
My guess is these trucks were REME/ CREME late war modifications or possibly post war.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

With mounts you mean the winch crossmember, as per Tony Wheeler's remark?:

- Hanno

It's not so much as a Crossmember (which suggests a full-width frame between the chassis rails), as 2 "C" section pads that are rivetted within each chassis rail.