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#31
08-08-03, 15:00
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tyres
The gentleman that I talked to at the UK ministry of transport tells me that my vehicles do not need E marked tyres... though he didn't say why.... This must by default mean that they carry different markings......
can any one explain? 
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#32
08-08-03, 18:37
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Beaulieu
At the National Motor Museum, Beaulieu, is a specialist tyre manufacturing, selling and exporting company for obsolete tyres for vintage vehicles. They use the original moulds. I wonder what their attitude is when they get approached over the subject? I remember Barum tyres from when I ran a CZ motorcycle. The rubber used was evidently recycled rubber bands, because they were so slippery. The spark plugs were PAL items...hence the message a "PAL" is no pal!
As regards an MoT the answer may be to submit a vehicle for test and then appeal over the question of the words on the tyres, and get a definitive answer accordingly. Just a stupid thought but has anyone asked the Indian company if they can come up trumps? I used to deal with a company in Bombay that were mad keen on exporting tools, filters, anything, worldwide as copies of obsolete parts. They could arrange for anything to be cloned.
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#33
08-08-03, 19:41
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tyres
It may be worth looking at this site: www.blockleytyre.com.
They make moulds and tyres for vintage racers and say in the blurb they are open to approach for other projects, it would mean that we would have to organise ourselves but other groups do it. The alternative is trucks on blocks !!  Pete
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#34
08-08-03, 20:36
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Re: Pete --
It might be worth my dropping them a line on MLU letterhead, just to see what reaction we might get. Can we get a consensus here on sizes we might be interested in, and tread patterns? Presumably the S-pattern would satisfy everyone, but if we were to start from scratch, would the Y-pattern be better? I could use the Coker Tire pic as an example. It strikes me that there may be a market for several hundred 9.00-16s, but 9.25s might also be plausible, as would 10.50-20s. What say you all? re: David -- Good suggestion re India... I have a military contact there through Tanknet... I'll approach him as per the above. Geoff
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#35
08-08-03, 22:19
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Re: tyres
Quote:
I have recently come across this one, in the search for suitable replacement tyres for a Daimler Dingo. "E" marked tyres are not neccessary for certain vehicles over, and I think it is 50 years old. That is certainly a great help......unless of course there are no tyres around of the size you require. I will rack my mind to remember where I saw that reference. Richard
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#36
08-08-03, 22:26
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Re: tyres
Quote:
I think that I may have approached this company about the possibility of making repro tyres for the Daimler Dingo. It seems the company gets there tyres made for them in the Far East, labour and costs are low. They told me that to make a mould for a tyre would be about £25,000 before the cost of the tyre and with a minimum run of 200 tyres. It does mean that a lot of money has to be put up front before anything will happen. Certainly worth pursueing though. Richard
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#37
09-08-03, 09:30
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Indian production
I emailed the Indian company as I have a tradition of doing such things, and finding out what companies can do for the older generation of vehicles. I would have thought that making a mould would be cheaper in India than the UK as well. Surely thry could use their tyre patterns and just extrapolate for other sizes, and also get rid of IMPLEMENT wording? Interesting this problem of tyres...if CMPs use them, then there must be a whole world of old vehicles out there that also need them. Were they fitted to Bedfords, leylands, etc. of the period?
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#38
17-01-04, 05:16
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Tony,
If you contact AGTYRE Wholesale Australian number 1800 028988 or 02 6752 4299 they have 900X13 "sand" tyres. I have not seen them but they tell me they are for military vehicle use, made in Japan and have a speed rating of 120kph (not agricultural types). Price seems very cheap - about the same as bottom of the line Landcruiser tyres. Lang Kidby
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#39
17-01-04, 16:42
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AGTYRE
Lang
I am looking into buying some 9.00-13 tyres soon . I could not find AGTYRE listed anywhere in white pages Are they in NSW or QLD ? Do you know the brand of the Jap 9.00 - 13 's they sell , and what type of tread pattern is it ? Mike Last edited by Mike Kelly; 17-01-04 at 16:49.
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#40
19-01-04, 07:25
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9.00-13 tyres
I rang Agtyre International this morning. the 9.00-13 sand pattern tyres they have are not Japanese, but Indian MRF's! (See pic at top of this post). They also confirmed that Olympic Grasslands are out of production now and would be impossible to find in a dealer's stock. But thanks for the heads-up, Lang, keep looking!
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#41
22-01-04, 08:14
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Mike,
Dropped into AgTyre in Moree this morning on the way back with the Dodge. Great disappointment! The Tyres they have would be OK for a Blitz they are not made in Japan but India and the pattern is photographed in this thread above - pretty aggressive bit too much to put on a Dodge sedan! They are DOT rated for 120kph. They also have a lighter rib pattern just smooth straight ribs like an aircraft tyre which would be fantastic in the sand but pretty exciting on a wet road. They showed me some tyres that had been hand grooved from straight rib to the traditional diamond pattern. looked pretty good if you had a bit of time on your hands and could borrow a grooving tool Lang
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#42
22-01-04, 10:10
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Re: Indian production
Quote:
We have exhausted the UK arm of Olympic, this came up a little while ago and I think they were getting exasperated by the MV people calling them about 9.00 x 13 "Grassland" tyres which have been out of production in that size for ages. They really should take them off their web site but I expect that costs money with an IT firm. Young Ballard was right in gathering every 9.00 x 13 Olympic he saw, there are 5 almost new ones on the PU and another 5 carefully stored. Definitely not for sale this side of hell freezing over. We did latch onto some of those original chevron patterned 9.00 x 13s being sold off from unused French mil stock. These were on Bofors rims too, but regretabbly having bought 10 unseen and shipped the car to France for collection, these were new once but had been stored in the damp and were now on very rusty rims and quite badly perished; even carefully removing them showed the original fitting to be careless with the bead covering torn in many places. They were fit only for the walking pace showground use and I think he's let them all go. When I got the T24 Simex for OF Ballard I understood from the dealer who placed the special order with Sime UK that the implement marking was the only cop-out they had to side-step the cold clammy hand of the EU bumf generating fun stopper. They would be well outside the centrally enforced law that road tyres from a commercial outlet must be EU approved, a desperately expensive process. I don't know how you go on for a private, personal import though, our friend "The Baron Paulus von Hocking" had to bring Stoewer 18" tyres back from Poland, and they are instantly recognisable as 2WD tractor fronts!! Try Dave at Tanvic Tyres, (01476 561699) they are amenable to odd ball tyre supplies and have some knowledge of the old mil stuff. I will also check with Collins tyres here in Portsmouth; last time Rory and I were there getting new 9.00 x 13 tubes they had some quite odd tyres around (possibly the MRFs) and seemed to be unfazed by enquiries for strange patterns in strange sizes. http://www.referenceline.com/contact/contact_1906.htm Oh, Mike K; signal just in from young Ballard; he will check his stock on M-C steering wheels, probably has a spare and, would you like a OH engine waterpump too? We can smash the impeller getting it off or you can do it, what do you prefer? Whilst I'm at it, may I just say that I appreciate the stuff seen in the left hand column from the Davids H and C, I think I know where you are coming from. . . . . . . . . . . R.
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#43
22-01-04, 15:56
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comments
Re: The 9.00-13 tyres . It is a shame that Olympic pulled the plug , but that is possibly the result of the free world trade agreement in action . The Indian made tyres are so much cheaper to make I guess . The MRF type tread is really a copy of the NATO pattern I think .
To FV623 alias ZOE : Yes please , a Morris Commercial Steering wheel would be great . They are prone to disintegrating , made from a hard bakelite or rubber ? Apparently a fellow in the US , I was reading on the Bantam car web site the other night , is very skilled at making steering wheels from polyurethane epoxy liquid . Probably a 2 part mix he uses , he makes the moulds and metal skeleton up , then casts the new wheel . The late 1930's tiny Bantam cars were a spin off of the UK Austin I think . This fellow makes new S/wheels for the tiny Bantams for restorers etc. The web site is http://www.wmspear.com/Bantam/ The site has some good info on the Bantam BRC Jeep also . Water pump too ! I had fun disassembling one - crack. . . bang , little bits of cast iron impellor went all over the garage floor . Swear - curse XXX XXXX . The MC water pumps are nice though , two ball races , once pulled apart , they are easy to rebuild , repack with modern grease , they will last for many years . You have to be so carefull with old tyres . The problem with 900-13's is they are rather like a ordinary 6 ply car tyre , they have thin walls . The larger 900-16's have much thicker walls , and even though badly cracked , they will withstand road use . 900-13's would blow out readily if in a perished state , whereas 900-16's will keep going , I have seen it happen . Some of the 900-16's I have seen at rallies would have a roadwotrhy inspector in fits . Mike
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#44
23-01-04, 05:05
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Quote:
 Imagine the impertinance of some people actually ringing up a business and trying to buy something! Why don't they just leave me alone to enjoy my cup of tea! You would think that with all the inquiries and interest in Olympic Grasslands that Olympic might actually think about doing another production run, or even passing the moulds over to MRF if they are some sort of subsidiadry or sister company.
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#45
23-01-04, 09:37
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Quote:
Even with the people calling them, I think our quantities are less than insignificant in their scale of things and I'd expect a "run" would be at least 1000 units or more. I'd guess the profit per tyre is minimal so its either order a lot or negotiate for a short run at a huge price per item. Broadly, there are probably only 4 or 6 actual tyre makers in the world, the odd names you find are just minor subsidiaries of the common domestic names that they use to make non-mainstream tyres thus reserving the big name for the domestic marketplace. Olympic are a part of Dunlop and Dunlop is now in Kobe wholly owned by Yokohama, it would be no surprise if Yokohama weren't owned by Firestone or sombody like that. Simex are Dunlop too and have the T24 Trakgrip moulds, looking at the patterns you could deduce MRF are part of Michelin and perhaps using an earlier version of the XL mould as the pattern is almost identical. Apart from the insignificant and discountable number of MV people who'd take 4 or 5 9.00 x 13's, who else in the world would want this strange size ? I'm struggling to understand why MRF even made some. It was used on farm trailers and the like here ages ago but not now. R.
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#46
23-01-04, 10:35
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Re: comments
Quote:
Of course we don't have to send a rare MC pump all the way down under for you to shatter the impeller, I can do that easily with the 25 ton floor press, nothing yet hasn't come apart albeit in several bits of shrapnel now resting in the darkest recesses of Ballard's garage, as they do. Tyres are a really important area here, and we've seen the horrors at shows too. The police are really hot on applying the UK law to the letter, you can absolutely guarantee they take a peek under all circumstances and an illegal one is a 3 point + fine job. IIRC we are obliged to have 1.6mm over 3/4 of the central area and "visible" tread elsewhere; any Kojak impressions anywhere and you've had it. Then it gets looser about being in good condition and commensurate with the vehicle performance; I wouldn't like to argue the common, as-new Dunlop run-flat side wall cracks even though the walls are almost 2" thick. In fact the often used Ferret RFHS2 T24's fail just one aspect of our Construction and Use definition for pnuematic tyres; theoretically they are then defined as solid and may only be used on pre 1910 vehicles at 15mph or less. Of course the insurance people instantly let themselves out at the first whiff of a potentially arguable tyre, as they are so adept at doing. In terms of ply statements, do bear in mind this is always a "rating" and has nothing to do with what is actually in there now since one layer of rayon or other modern stuff is as good as the several layers of canvas the old ratings referred to. R.
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#47
23-01-04, 15:44
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reply
Quote:
Richard . There is still a market here for 900-13's in the agricultural trade . Quite a few farmers still use implements that run 900-13's , eg. orchard sprayers and other smallish farm trailered devices . A few years back , I bought a pair of Olyimpic 900-13's fitted on 4 hole rims , some type of wheel used on a farm hay lifting thing . They looked OK , but during the disassembly the rubber tore away from the bead wire , they were perished . I took a chance and lost . 900-13 is a weird size , but most agricultural tyre suppliers here still , at least , recognize that size if you ask . Bridgestone were making them too for a while , a squarish block pattern tread , but , I feel they are no longer around either . A friend from NZ who has a Humber PU told me of a Japanese brand of 900-13's but , not available outside of Japan ! As time goes on , I predict that a lack of suitable tyres will really hit us MV collectors . Is it 10" tyres for the 6 pounder gun that everyone says are extinct ? Mike
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#48
24-01-04, 03:55
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8.25-10 tyres for 6pdr AT gun
See my original post at the lead of this thread! I personally know of 3 top condition 6pdr guns that are let down by poor tyres. One is running 1942 run flats with serious cracks, one has 7.50-10 M274 Mule tyres that are seriously overlaoded and the third is sitting on axle stands. I have heard of other owners/restorers of quite restorable guns who have decided to do nothing until the question of tyres can be resolved.
So what, you say? What's the issue with an occaisional gun here or there? Like Mike said, if we don't find (relatively cheap) sources for tyres for our vehicles now, then we face the prospect of having fine restored vehicles that are unfit/unable to be moved. Its bad enough facing police/insurance/licencing issues that risk keeping us off the road, but to overcome those and then not being able to move because your tyres are FBR- well we might as well give it all up. I should comment that the following recent production tyres/sizes are all authentic WW2 tread patterns and sizes that are now out of production or hard to find: 9.00-13 Olympic Grasslands 9.00-16 Simex ST24 10.50-16 Coker "Firestone" chevron Last edited by Tony Smith; 24-01-04 at 04:14.
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#49
24-01-04, 09:52
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Re: 8.25-10 tyres for 6pdr AT gun
Quote:
The WWII rim sizes themselves seem to be obsolete and non-commercial sizes today. In 16" there is some popularity because of the quantity of old LR's about but these are either the 6.5/7.5 sizes or specialist and wholly uncommensurate off-road competition stuff. There is some Michelin stuff though and here still a fair amount of 9.00 x 16 ex-mil NDCC as used on LR 101's. Trawling Google for simply 9.00 x 16 and the like produced most responses from Oz and NZ, it seems Simex are Oz based now http://www.simextyre.com/ but don't list the ST24 at all. We have found 9.00 x 13 in a wavy tread pattern, Brian has these on his Bofors behind the F30 LAAT; they are definitely "Agricultural" and purely made for farm trailer use. We'd not want to run these on a truck though for many reasons. The mil 20" size too is rare, and I need to match tyres for circumference also, however, anything over a few tens of miles is cheaper by truck than throwing UK petrol in a 623 at some 2.5mpg. I'll test the water with the odd-ball suppliers here and am still awaiting any response from MRF after sending them an enquiry via their site. http://www.mrftyres.com/ I guess at some time we may have to fabricate wheels that do take the nearest current size that is acceptable, this likely means parting the centres out on the lathe and welding back into a modern rim, a huge task with a divided type too. The process fills me with horror frankly, the potential for complete mobile disaster doesn't bear thinking about.  I reckon tyres are going to be the disaster area and we'll be hearing about it more and more. R.
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#50
24-01-04, 15:32
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Simex
As a final comment on the tyre thing .
Around six months back I emailed SIMEX at their large headquarters , not that far from here actually . I queried them about the ST24's . Response was NIL . Not even the courtesy of a reply in any form . I have had same responce from paint manufacturers when asking about matt military type paint for auto use . In many cases , these large companies just ignore you totally . Maybe a in the face type situation would help eg. going to visit them . Many times while trying to find a firm to fold up awkward shaped 2mm panels for my C8 . I was told , oh that will cost thousands , or we don't do one off jobs . In other words they just could not be bothered . It takes much research and effort to get what you need these days , restoring old trucks is not easy . The old trades are dying out too . How many 16 year olds want to learn a hands on trade these days ? They mostly do IT courses at college . Go to a panel beater , its a joke , they bolt on plastic grills all day . Repair a damaged guard ! What actually use a hammer and dolly ! Mike
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#51
24-01-04, 19:24
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Re: Simex
Quote:
How right you are, the world is now full of button pushers. I feel glad I had an apperticeship and have now been in vehicle and plant engineering for 37 years. Unless you can find a bodyshop that does restorations, you are likely to have a "ready-mix applicator" as modern cars do not last long enough to worry about panel beating. Richard
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#52
28-01-04, 21:40
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Re: comments
Quote:
MRF do a 9.00-13 with a grooved tread, take a look at the new thread re. 9" - 13" tyre from India and look up the link to military sandmaster, load rating is over 1000 kgs. No mention of agricultural use. As it is under the military section they have to be vehicle tyres. Richard
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#53
28-01-04, 22:51
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Re: Re: comments
Quote:
If a tyre is unapproved, which is likely unless the market is tens of thousands minimum owing to the horrendous cost of submitting to EU approval, then the only option to sell legally is to mark these "implement" no matter what they really are, whereupon it is up to the user to ensure the application is commensurate with the limits of this requirement, i.e. the supplier is off the hook. Some suppliers kindly use the provided blank window on the side wall and print this in indellible black ink. It need be on one wall only and there is no requirement to have this on the vehicle outside. I have the same problems with overly expensive two-way radios, they have to meet ETSI approvals this and that and the other or are unlicensable, the user and me would take a huge tumble otherwise. R.
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#54
28-01-04, 23:28
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Re: Re: Re: comments
Quote:
Yes, I am aware of the E mark business. Point I was making was that these are not agricultural or implement tyres. Having been involved in agricultural engineering many years ago, I am aware that some tyres of this size are made for that purpose, for trailed machinery. There was one on a stall at the last Beltring, I would definetly not fit it on anything going over 20mph. They usually have a wide, wavy grooved tread. There is a rule, details not to hand, that states that vehicles made before a certain date, and I think it is 1949, that require special tyres unavailable in EU, can import non-E mark tyres for their use. Richard
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#55
29-01-04, 05:33
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Re: Re: Re: Re: comments
Quote:
I note from trawling the net for MRF that some of these types are the control tyres used in large-scale UK competition rallying; this is a very demanding application and speaks volumes for the capabilities of MRF - India. It would be nice to find the definitive written word about tyre specs on pre '49 vehicles as this could be the ultimate let-out, well, until some EU cleric spots it that is. Doesn't help the people with later vehicles though, I shall shortly be obliged to fit the Alliance 14.00 x 20's here just to maintain the necessary size matching; not E-marked but the moulded-in data panel gives a load rating way above what is needed and a speed rating 10mph above the engine governor. I did call in to the local tyre place that shows promise but unfortunately the "man that wastes hours on odd tyres" wasn't in yesterday, we'll try again. R.
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#56
29-01-04, 06:45
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MRF Tyres
Having another trawl around the net I find MRF have an export site with world contact data:
http://www.mrf-exports.com/contact.asp Seems America and Australia is served but not the UK Also you'll find here the whole range of e-catalogues: http://www.mrf-exports.com/ecatalogue.asp?tyres=y The military and others look very interesting, although I wouldn't much fancy the "Sandmaster" (as opposed to the "Sandgrip") on the road. http://www.mrf-exports.com/products.asp Look under "military". R.
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#57
29-01-04, 07:26
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The MRF distributor in Australia is AgTyre in Moree.
They carry a number of military vehicle "fast" movers eg 900x16, 600x16, 1200x20 etc. For the odd sizes there is a 90 day lead time but anything off the MRF catalogue is available. Download off the web above. AgTyre is absolutely unmoveable in their rule of wholesale and no amount of talking would get them to sell me a set of tyres direct. They will only sell to bonafide tyre retailers whose mark-up in most cases is quite substantial if you get them to order tyres for you. Anyhow, as my company deals with aircraft and specialist vehicle parts, I have been accepted as a dealer. If anyone wants to order MRF tyres just contact me and I will place the order at a price better than generally available. Tyres will be shipped direct from Moree to your address. I will do this as a service for the old vehicle people. Just special types, if mum's car needs new tyres go to Tyremart!
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#58
29-01-04, 10:34
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Re: MRF Tyres
Quote:
Quote:
Hanno
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#59
29-01-04, 10:50
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Re: Re: MRF Tyres
Quote:
I had to have something to do at 5am in the morning. I was thinking Oz deliveries aren't so bad, both the CAD and AUD are living around 2.5 to the GBP and this makes OZ stuff very inexpensive; as Mike and I know shipping either way is dirt cheap, at the last count 1 tonne/cu m was the lowest denominator at just 65 quid. Now, I wonder why there's no EU agent. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Couldn't possibly be anything to do with the Brussels bumf generator, surely ? R.
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#60
29-01-04, 11:03
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10.50-16 Coker "Firestone" chevron
Quote:
I know what those Olympic and Simex tyres look like, but would you happen to have a picture of those 10.50-16 Coker "Firestone" chevron tyres? As shown earlier in this thread, the BARUM NT-3 a.k.a. MITAS IM-1 is the only 10.50-16 tyre available new here in Europe. Not an authentic WW2 tread, but suitable enough.  Source: http://www.oponympm.com.pl Regards, Hanno
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Linear Mode
