Bren LMG mount - Page 2

cletrac (RIP) · #31 27-06-08, 03:58

Here's a couple of pix from Tools of the Trade. The mounts on the carriers in 1941 don't have any springs for counterbalancing. The Chev Cab 12 water truck doesn't have a roof hatch and I thought all 12 cabs had them.

rob love · #32 27-06-08, 05:38

The pogo stick type mount on the carriers have a spring in the shaft to smooth out the Bren Guns ride. I always found the Carrier's AA setup to be fairly high.....no need for a counterbalance spring.

There were some of these carrier mounts made up in limited numbers years back. With all the carriers on the go these days, it would be nice if someone did another run of them.

cliff · #33 27-06-08, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by cletrac

The Chev Cab 12 water truck doesn't have a roof hatch and I thought all 12 cabs had them.

Cab 12's only had the hatch if it was required and not all had them.

cletrac (RIP) · #34 05-07-08, 06:53

My motley seat came in the mail today. I thought it'd arrive by courier but it came with regular mail deliveries. I put it in the back of the 2B1 and tried it out for size. I can barely squeeze my butt into the seat but then they were designed for 20 year olds. It looks like the same seat could be used on the over the shoulder mount or the straddle mount. There's the verticle pipe at the back as well as one that faces forward.

cletrac (RIP) · #35 27-07-08, 23:20

Here's a pic off ebay with a different kind of mount on a Jeep.

Quote:

VERY SCARCE ORIGINAL SIGNAL CORPS PHOTO SHOWING FREE FRENCH SAS RECON AIRBORNE TROOPS IN THEIR SPECIALLY DESIGNED MB WILLYS or GPW FORD JEEP WITH BREN GUN AND TWIN VICKERS " K " or " VGO" LIGHT MACHINE GUN MOUNT PICTURED AT FLORENVILLE, BELGIUM ( south of Bastogne ) during the Battle of the Bulge by an american signal corps photographer.
THE SIDE OF THE JEEP BEARS THE CROSS OF LORRAINE INSIGNIA AND THE BUMPER IS MARKED " ORADOUR SUR GLANE " : the french town where almost 600 french civilians were murdered by the 2nd SS Division DAS REICH.

Also, but this is difficult to see on my scan, the driver wears a Denison Smock with pegasus badges applied and a captured german map case.
The door of the barn behind the jeep bears two TEXACO oil company enamel advertizing signs
A must have for the collector of french , british and belgian SAS paratrooper related items like denison smock, beret , " Who dares wins " stuff etc

cletrac (RIP) · #36 14-12-08, 04:13

I've been trying to figure out how they anchored the seat when not in use. That long hinged handle under the gun support arm hooked onto something, but what? In this motorcycle pic it's being used (circled in yellow) but what would it hook to on a truck? The seat has a pin that would have been spring loaded to stop it from rotating too. This is a pretty good LIFE pic too.
It looks like the motorcycles used the same setup as the trucks except for shorter legs on the seat. These are both Mark IV mounts.

cletrac (RIP) · #37 14-12-08, 04:33

I made up this composite drawing from some defense dept drawings to come up with a Mark IV mount for a single gun. I printed it out full size using a number of pages that I taped together and it'll make an excellent blueprint to reproduce a mount. I have the seat so I'm half way there already. If anybody wants full size drawings let me know and I'll post the images.

cletrac (RIP) · #38 14-12-08, 04:46

I looked through my anti aircraft pix to see if there was anything else I wanted to post and noticed something on this one. There's the rod that the motley hooks to to stow it when not in use just to the left of the seat. You squeeze the handle on the mount part and the spring loaded pin pulls out of the way so you can hook the two pieces together. Then you let go and the pin fits into that groove in the vertical rod and the mount is held in place. I imagine that rod could be layed down on the floor when not in use though as it would get in the way sticking up like in the pic.

marco · #39 17-12-08, 17:38

Found this photo from the 12th Manitoba Dragoons in the National Archives of Canada.

Marco

Lynn Eades · #40 17-12-08, 20:46

On the size of the seat, and your seat. I understand that Yankee stadium has been "re seated" 3 times since it was first built, each time the seats are 2 inches wider. Our seats are getting bigger than they were when our "Boys" went off to fight in WWII.

Richard Farrant · #41 17-12-08, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco

Found this photo from the 12th Manitoba Dragoons in the National Archives of Canada.

Marco

Marco,

The Humber Scout Car, has the twin PLM mounting. I converted a single mounting to a twin for a Humber owner a few years back.

cletrac (RIP) · #42 18-12-08, 06:42

I opened the Mk IV drawing for the single gun in Autosketch and put in the dimensions. The gun support arm is 1 1/2" square tubing, the legs and horizontal pipe under the seat are 1 1/4" O tubing, the vertical pipe that's attached to the seat is 2" O tubing, All the tubing is 1/8" thick wall.

cletrac (RIP) · #43 23-12-08, 02:42

This looks like a simple mount with a bamboo chair for a seat. I like the Boyes mount too. I wonder if that bracket was simply bolted to the spare wheel so you could put it where-ever you wanted.

cliff · #44 23-12-08, 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cletrac

This looks like a simple mount with a bamboo chair for a seat. I like the Boyes mount too. I wonder if that bracket was simply bolted to the spare wheel so you could put it where-ever you wanted.

Aussie Ford Ute.

Original AWM caption

ID Number: 008801
Physical description: Black & white
Summary: SYRIA, 1941-06. GUNNER J. WOODS (ON TOP) AND DRIVER T. KELLY, AIF, HAVE ADEQUATE DEFENCES AGAINST AIRCRAFT, TANKS OR INFANTRY. (PHOTOGRAPHER: F. HURLEY).

cletrac (RIP) · #45 24-01-09, 22:01

I started fabricating the Motley mount for my Motley seat the other day. You can traverse the gun a limited amount without moving the seat as the vertical pivot pipe doesn't attach to the pipe on the seat. I tried it on for size and it would be hard to use if you only had to swing the seat to traverse. I'm going to have to look around to find a couple of counterbalance springs. I should be able to come up with something close. A two inch trailer ball cut in half worked perfect for the end of the gun support arm.
I also started assembling my plastic Lewis gun to go on top. I made a wooden stock for it to make it stronger and more authentic looking. It'll probably look real when you're standing back a few feet.

cletrac (RIP) · #46 30-01-09, 01:30

I got most of the mount made and pieced everything together to see how it works.I haven't got a picture of a Lewis mounted on one but this is how they must have done it. I've just got a single spring jury rigged to set it up and the Lewis isn't glued together yet but it looks pretty good anyway. I still have to pretty up some of the welds and make a few more bits.

cletrac (RIP) · #47 23-02-09, 21:13

I downloaded some of those Small Arms Training pamphlets and came across this one.
http://www.weapons.org.uk/
This twin Vickers setup needed a second truck to carry supplies and the rest of the crew. It seems pretty labour intensive when compared with the twin Bren setup.

cletrac (RIP) · #48 23-02-09, 21:21

There's even a listing of the stores they carried.
I'm not sure what kind of truck it is but it looks like a 2A1 style box although likely a British version.

cletrac (RIP) · #49 02-03-09, 03:44

I've been making a 2A1 box for my Cab 11 to make it an AAAT1 and today I just had to try the motley out for fit. It's going to look pretty good when finished.
I figured something else out too. That pix I posted with the bar for stowing the mount when moving puts it pointing towards the passenger side of the endgate. This accomplishes two things. It keeps the gun from sticking out behind the endgate when stowed and it keeps it out of the way when you climb in over the endgate.

Big D · #50 02-03-09, 10:56

Hey David. Is this where you got your Lewis:

http://www.foxflier.com/lewis/

I recall you mentioning it to me. It does look quite good in the photos. How does it look 'in the flesh'?

Cheers

Darryl

cletrac (RIP) · #51 03-03-09, 03:38

Darryl, that's the one all right. I didn't like their plastic stock so I made one out of walnut and used an old Lee Enfield butt plate.I also flipped the bottom part of the magazine over and glued some fired .303 brass in the grooves for a more realistic look. I'm going to put the barrel pipe in the lathe to put the grooves in it too. I made the stock extend up through the action part to give more strength and used a piece of 3/8' black iron pipe for the barrel. This made it pretty sturdy.
It looks good when you're back a ways but the plastic hasn't got any fine details in it. Everything is kinda rounded off. For the price it does the job. I know if I drove around with it mounted in a truck the guys in the striped pants would have me stopped in record time.
The attached pic shows the stock and barrel I made

cletrac (RIP) · #52 12-03-09, 08:23

I came across these two pix on the G503 forum
http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic...motley&start=0
It looks like a Motley Mk5 with the four springs and round tubing gun support arm and it has the cartwheel type sight. The 303 Browning looks heavy enough that they couldn't mount two or the counterbalance would be overpowered.

Hanno Spoelstra · #53 15-04-09, 23:21

Arjan,

You might be interested to know there is a Bren LMG mount in The Netherlands. The Rekwisieten Commissie Koninklijke Landmacht has one in their collection - see the attached picture (source: http://www.vriendenlegermuseum.nl/ev...dagen_2005.htm)

HTH,
Hanno

cletrac (RIP) · #54 11-01-10, 00:16

Here's a picture that I found on ebay. It was the cover of an American Rifleman magazine.

cletrac (RIP) · #55 25-01-10, 03:02

I bought a 1942 Anti Aircraft Small Arms Training Manual and it has three pages on the Motley mount so here they are. On the 2A1 it says to install the mount on the fourth and ninth holes from the front. This mounts the seat forward of center on the box so the gun barrel goes over the cab and you can't shoot the driver. The drivers would have liked this feature!
It also states that each gun gets four of the 100 round drum mags and thirteen regular 30 shot mags.

cletrac (RIP) · #56 04-02-10, 20:50

I got that American Rifleman magazine off ebay and it had this pic of an early pogo style mount. The truck is an 11 cab F15 by the look of it. It's not high enough to be a 4x4. This is the only pic I've come across of the early style mounts in a truck. It's interesting to note the sling fitted to the Bren. I guess they wanted to be ready for anything! There's also a chain and rope draped around the pintle hitch.
The third pic is a rather cumbersome looking quad Bren mount.

cletrac (RIP) · #57 05-02-10, 01:03

The pogo mount pic in the previous post was taken by a Life photographer so I looked in Google's Life images and came up with this one. If you look close, it's the same truck taken moments before. I was right about it being a 4x2 version too.

cletrac (RIP) · #58 05-02-10, 22:18

Here's a few more off the IWM site.

Operation TORCH: airmen of an RAF Regiment anti-aircraft flight man Browning twin anti-aircraft machine guns from the back of a three-ton truck on the airfield at Bone, Algeria 13-25 November 1942
REFERENCE NUMBER CNA 38
Those are Brownings on motley seats mounted in a 60 cwt. If there's two more on the other side and one more in the front it would sure be an impressive sight.

Men of the 2nd Cameron Highlanders man a Bren gun set up on an anti-aircraft mounting in the back of a 15cwt truck during training at Mena Camp near Giza, Egypt, 4 June 1940.
REFERENCE NUMBER E 128

Soldiers of the 4th Indian Division decorate the side of their lorry 'Khyber pass to Hellfire Pass'. 'Hellfire Pass' was the nickname for the strategically important Halfaya Pass, fortified by the Germans and which the British attacked, unsuccessfully, during Operation Battleaxe.
REFERENCE NUMBER E 3660
That's some kind of a Bren mount in the back of a 15cwt with a 2B1 box.

cletrac (RIP) · #59 12-02-10, 05:22

Here's a low res shot off ebay. It's a 15 cwt cab 12 with a Bren Motley in a 2B1 box. It has the stowage link hooked up and it sits the Bren level. I thought they would sit down at the rear. I'll have to rethink this when I get around to making the link for mine.

cletrac (RIP) · #60 18-02-10, 03:47

Here's one from Getty Images taken in 1941 in north africa.