Cdn Ferret C/S 31 restoration

Robin Craig · #1 11-12-11, 13:08

This will be the start of a thread showing most things that I am doing on our Ferret.

The vehicle was purchased nearly 2 years ago and there is some info that I posted here:- http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ghlight=ferret

The basic intent of what I am doing is to make the vehicle as reliable and useable and roadworthy without any new holes of anything welded on.

I only get a few months over the winter to monopolise shop space and even then I have to be careful. It is only over the winter that I can get enough time to do what I want as part of my job is farming which sucks the hours out of a day.

The vehicle will not be a shiny hangar queen but a daily used vehicle with scuffed paint and a few hand prints.

I will be doing a few minor modifications that are all reversible and do not detract from the vehicle and to be quite frank 99% of you would never even know what has been done as either you dont know Ferrets or you can't see what has been done.

I would like to point out that I am not wealthy and am very fortunate to be employed by someone who shares my interests and affords me the use of shop space and heavy equipment and tools and jigs that we have made for Ferrets in the collection that I manage.

I am without question, opinionated and a different cat and those of you who know me will likely get a chuckle out of that. Those of you who dont know me will likely think i'm just rude sadly you are mistaken, i'm being blunt.

I would like to thank Colin Stevens for his work on Canadian Ferrets, even though this one is an exception to the rule.

So, to date the following has been done:-

Photos all around

The engine was run a few weeks ago and sounded quite sweet

Fuel tank removed

Power pack has been pulled

Fuel tank is back from cleaning

Propeller shafts removed

The pack is sitting on a stand, to be split shortly

Th hull has been dug out, literally, loads of soil and pine needles, a few bolts and a socket and one mg link

regards

Robin

Robin Craig · #2 11-12-11, 13:19

One of the major issues that I will be dealing with is a supply of clean fuel.

Sadly because of the inverted horse shoe shape of the tank the right side only fills once the level on the left side reaches the middle and the fuel flows over the middle hump.

Lack of good housekeeping practises with Ferrets result in fuel being orphaned on one side as owners don't change over the fuel tap to draw from the other side. The vehicles in the collection when used get the tap switched over at the half way point in the journey and have the tanks brimmed off for anti-condensation best results.

One of the modifications I would suggest anyone does is to extend the banjo bolt with a small tube brazed or soldered into the centre just to lift the draw point a small way up.

It is shown in drawing form here http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/useful_info.htm quite a ways down the page.

R

Phil Waterman · #3 11-12-11, 14:07

Hi Robin

Thanks for sharing the Daimler Ferret Useful info web site http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/useful_info.htm I had never seen this one before. Who ever put it together has put a lot of effort and time into a most interesting and informative web site regardless of if you have a Ferret or not.

The comment about the fuel tank design leaving fuel in one side unless you change over the fuel valve reminded me of Rider Rental a truck rental company in the states at one point modified many of their trucks with saddle tanks by putting a small cross feed line between the tanks, reason too many service calls trucks stopped by the side of the road with a fuel tank of fuel. Of course the engine was using the other tank. I've heard of the same problem with motor cycle tanks which have the same saddle configuration and the same issue of collecting dirt and water in one side if both sides are not used regularly.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Cheers Phil

Robin Craig · #4 11-12-11, 15:43

Here are some better pictures, things electronic like digital cameras give me grief, maybe because they have no grease nipple . .

The radiator is already off hence the end view of the fan.

R

Robin Craig · #5 14-12-11, 11:19

Rad shop called, original one the lower tank is pooched. Pulled off the rad from the other vehicle and will send that in, somehow it doesn't look much better.

Anyone got any fave rad rebuilders who are artisans?

R

Andrew · #6 14-12-11, 17:09

Did you try your local Napa? I have talked to local napa and they have a rad re-builder in Barrie Ont. They say they have sent him tiny rads to huge semi rads, plus old farm tractor rads that they never thought could be fixed lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Rad shop called, original one the lower tank is pooched. Pulled off the rad from the other vehicle and will send that in, somehow it doesn't look much better.

Anyone got any fave rad rebuilders who are artisans?

R

Gunner · #7 14-12-11, 17:48

Robin:

I used this chap a few times. His Dad started the business and may be retired now but they used to bring him in to do special jobs... an artist with brass and solder and the only guy I found who still rodded out rads! They've done a couple of flathead V-8 Ford rads and the one out of my White half-track for me. Not cheap!

Macpherson's Radiator Service
11 Bell St
Carleton Place, ON K7C 1V8, Canada

Good luck!

Mike

chris vickery · #8 14-12-11, 21:52

I concur with Gunner. Trick is with these oddball rads is to find an old time rad shop that doesn't mind a challenge.
I know when I had my Ford 12 cab cmp rad done, using my local rad shop, they reproed it quite well, using only my tanks and drain cocks. The rest was made up of a new set of fins and tubes with custom cut headers. It was art and the rad guy told me to never come back...

Guess his original quote was a bit low compared to the amount of work it turned out to be.

Robin Craig · #9 15-12-11, 04:33

I have sent my second rad in for a look see and also a mate seems to think that he may have one dirt cheap across the pond.

We will see what options develop

R

CsepelLaszlo · #10 19-12-11, 16:59

Lots of work Robin, But looking pretty slick so far, Keep up the good work!!
BTW, Any chances of another Ferret kicking around like this I can grab? - hah!

Robin Craig · #11 19-12-11, 19:18

Thanks for the comments.

If you looked at the for sale section I do have a second Ferret in need of work, but once you have done one they are a breeze.

Currently that vehicle is supposed to be spoken for but the entity that is working with me is moving at a glacial pace and we have been dancing for over a year already but the music is still playing.

R

Robin Craig · #12 19-12-11, 19:25

Last Wednesday we pulled the power pack apart and removed the fluid flywheel which has gone out to my friends at Kingston transmission for a look see and clean up.

Tommy the owner, (along with his wife Darla) is a lover of things odd ball and different and has the fluid flywheel half and a stack of manuals on his shop bench and clear instructions as to what to do with it.

Tommy is a wizard with transmissions of any variety and the more of a challenge the better. While his everyday business is your common or garden family wagon and sedan type vehicle monster loader and heavy equipment and ancient units do not scare him, it is like laying down a gauntlet to him.

He has successfully and reasonably rebuilt a military Mercedes automatic tranny that had many possible variations to it with no problem.

I cant say enough good words about him and the quality of his work.

He is itching to get his hands on the t case and gearbox also.

R

CsepelLaszlo · #13 21-12-11, 16:37

Robin, PM sent.... Thanks

Richard Farrant · #14 21-12-11, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Last Wednesday we pulled the power pack apart and removed the fluid flywheel which has gone out to my friends at Kingston transmission for a look see and clean up.

Tommy the owner, (along with his wife Darla) is a lover of things odd ball and different and has the fluid flywheel half and a stack of manuals on his shop bench and clear instructions as to what to do with it.

The fluid flywheel is not exactly rocket science, nothing to them, a bonus earner for that guy

Robin Craig · #15 23-12-11, 14:13

Richard,

I am not a rocket scientist as many will attest to

I am desperatly short on time and Tommy is a good egg and he is going to be able to teach me some things so it is not money squandered.

There is also the fact we have a Mk 2/3 with some major issues and I really want it done right the first time.

Tommy will be explaining to me the simplicity of how it works when I get back as we are away for Christmas right now.

R

Robin Craig · #16 31-12-11, 03:53

So,

After the carrier recovery on Thursday I managed to fit a brief visit to Tommy and the fluid flywheel on Friday.

He had taken it apart and has found a few things that new replacing, a seal, a bearing, some crush washers, some circlips and some bolts.

Here is what it looks like apart.

This is the heart of a leaking Ferret power pack and is in my humble opinion the one item that owners do not address properly because it is so involved to get at it. They "try" to fix it by adding fluid on a regular basis and dismiss fluid leaks as "Oh its British, they all leak". Mike, take note please.

In reality the fluid flywheel should not leak, period. If it does it should be sorted.

I really would like and intend to have c/s 31 "sorted" and this is typical of the lengths I will go to in that direction.

As an aside, while on holiday before Christmas, in a junk store in southern Ontario I found this plaque that will go on my office wall

regards

Robin

Gunner · #17 31-12-11, 06:25

Hi Robin:

Thanks for posting the "guts" photo... it gives me a sense of what's ahead. Unfortunately the 'top it up on a regular basis' option will have to do until nicer weather as I don't have a heated space to pull the power pack...

Are overhaul kits aval for the flywheel? I was reading about a John Deere seal as an option; which way did you go?

Cheers, Mike

Rick W · #18 31-12-11, 13:27

Steep learning curve for you I suspect Robin! They are fairly basic to work on. In my opinion the flywheels have a tendency to leak when the vehicle has been left standing and the gasket shrinks on one side. They need a regular drive out of the garage to keep running sweet.

Robin Craig · #19 31-12-11, 13:30

Tommy has found all the parts available locally.

Yes the seal is a John Deere number, we just have to resolve an issue with that and how the retaining washer holds it down. It is minor and simple.

Just bear in mind that this bolts up against the flywheel and the whole unit is the fluid flywheel and that the flywheel cavity is part of the volume for the oil contained within.

There is a parting surface between the aluminum and the steel of the flywheel that we want to get really clean and also look at the bearing at the back of the flywheel so I am likely going to take it off today.

Mike, as far as a kit, Tommy has had to buy some things in minimum quantities of 5 or 10 so he has spares that he can put together as a a complete kit for you.

Cleanliness is everything with these things, and attention to detail. They are as Richard pointed out, quite simple, but as I am not an expert and don't have a nice water soluble parts washer using Tommy has been the best way to go.

R

Robin Craig · #20 31-12-11, 13:33

Rick,

I think your observation is correct but also applicable to most machinery.

Tommy and I have been talking about how and why and where they can leak.

I do have to say that this fluid flywheel has been apart as witnessed by a Toyo bearing inside and white silicone (possible bathtub stuff) used on the hub assembly.

We will report back to you later.

R

Robin Craig · #21 01-01-12, 22:13

Nothing like starting the New Year off on the right foot.

Tommy and I got together this morning, coffee of the right mixture works well as a bribe . .

We went through the rebuild of the fluid flywhweel half that Tommy has prepared for me, bead blasting and washing to a forensic standard and painting with his usual proprietary paint.

We had to make a new gasket for the bearing (new) and seal (new) hub component. new bolts were installed. We are using a Permatex sealant that is anaerobic. Tommy has researched it and spoken with their technical rep and it is sanctfied for our application.

Here are a few photos of crafting the gasket and sliding it all together.

I did manage to drop off the gearbox and t case unit this morning but we wont be going at that for about a week yet.

R

Robin Craig · #22 01-01-12, 22:15

And here are the last two pictures, all wrapped for cleanliness until I can get the flywheel part in during the week for a good cleaning.

R

CsepelLaszlo · #23 02-01-12, 03:22

I wish I was closer to witness all this marvellous work!
Awesome work!

Robin Craig · #24 02-01-12, 04:54

Once you have one apart, just like Richard said, they are simple.

My problem was zero hands on knowledge, all I had was booksmart knowledge.

The other thing is that Tommy (Kingston transmission) has a commercial parts washer that is just brilliant.

Regards

Robin

Dan Sicotte · #25 06-01-12, 23:32

I had a problem with a ferret gear box once.. the transmission shop had no clue. I would recommend that you contact Marcus in Little Sutton, and get the brake bands, and Seals, while it's apart. The transfer box should only be seals that go bad.....depending on how long she sat (rust being the issue). When I assisted with a Canadian Ferret resto, it was rusted so bad it would not turn. 00 DA 81 didn't have any issues with the drive train, as I tended to drive her periodically.

Yes, I know, I need to send you a CD....

Dan Sicotte · #26 06-01-12, 23:34

By the way,the restoration looks brilliant....trying to show me up?

Robin Craig · #27 07-01-12, 00:23

Dan and the rest of you out there . .

There was no issue per say on the whole transmission aka gearbox / transfer case.

I'm just not wanting an unreliable vehicle and figure that it is stupidly simple to have it apart by someone who wants to delve into it.

Our plan is to drain and open and go from there. When we know what is screwed we will replace, if it is prudent to replace other items while we are there we will.

Tommy is wanting to learn all about them and do more after mine. So he can explain to me how it works as i'm a mental midget at times.

Dan, there is a lot more to go and with me being the only breadwinner in our house right now there is precious little play money so i'm going to have to be patient.

R