Early chevrolet in desert war

[serge]

Hello

In the famous book « AMBUSH AT GEBEL SHERIF » two kinds of CHEVROLET are displayed: the most famous is the wreck of an LRDG CHEVROLET WB laying in the WADI destroyed by Italian forces and the second is a CHEVROLET described as truck belonging to the French Free forces. This last one seems to have burned following mechanical problems. Having found an old book, “L’EPOPEE LECLERC” wrote by French General INGOLD and edited in 1945, I have been very surprised to see two identical CHEVROLET in active service. The picture is not very accurate and at first glance they seem to be LRDG trucks CHEVROLET 1533, but the body is longer and the main difference is the head lights, separated from the fenders. The top of cab has been cut and the wheels allow the mount of large “sand tyres” but with only 5 bolts (instead of 8 or 10 in LRDG trucks). According to other pictures and information, the COLUNM LECLEC used only two CHEVROLET trucks when moving to KOUFRA and it might be these trucks. The other trucks were MATFORD (in the same configuration), BEDFORD MW and BEDFORD OY with 4 LAFFLY S15.

I add to my post a pic of the replica of CHEVROLET WB stored in Imperial War Museum builded by a French military vehicle collector.

Regards Serge

[Kuno]

Bonjour, Serge;

Do you have the book "L'Odysee de la Colonne Leclerc"?

[motto]

Here's a chance to show my ignorance. As I understand it a number of Chev trucks were obtained by the military from a GM dealer or dealers in the Middle East and modified for desert use. This would inevitably lead to a variety of trucks being pressed into service. Given the commercial predisposition to mix and match along with the urgency of the situation also with the presence of military contract vehicles i.e. Canadian sourced or Indian army pattern the possibilities are endless.
The two trucks in the first picture appear to be modified commercial trucks known in Australia as Lend/Lease Chevs or '42 Chevs though I think that in other parts of the world this sheet metal appeared in '41. In Australia most of these trucks had ten 9/16' studs holding the rear wheels on and five on the front. All wheels (20 inch) had the ten holes but on the front there was a plate that went on under the nuts that only had the five holes so the wheels appear to be different.
With the possible presence of Maple Leaf trucks or their components and the obvious use of 16" or 18" single wheels with a different stud pattern again the situation becomes somewhat confusing.

Help needed!

David

[Ganmain Tony]

Are they 18 inch rims on that replica Desert Chev in the last picture?

If so, what are the tyre specifications and are they a tyre that is still available to purchase?

[serge]

The story of the early CHEVY used by French Free Forces in the raid on KOUFRA is not very well knowed but they have follow the same way than the MATFORD used by this same forces (MATFORD was the society resulting upon the buy by FORD of the French factory MATHIS). One year before the beginning of the war near 300 MATFORD were send in AFRICA (and I thing also with a batch of CHEVROLET). Some of them have civilian body (similar to American stack and plate-forme) and other with steel body more useful for raid. So I thing that these steel body were made in FRANCE before the arrival in AFRICA, then other modifications were done like the removal of the top of the cab. ALL these trucks (MATFORD) were ordened by french ministery of defense but about the CHEVROLET I dont know. Nevertheless I think that there were from civilian origin (dealers) because all trucks coming in FRANCE from américan origin following french military order GMC,STUDEBAKER K25 ..
own US military modification (like black out ....)

On all pictures of trucks coming from FRANCE and used in TCHAD by RTST (Régiment des Tirailleurs Sénégalais au Tchad) the wheels were made in two parts in the aim to receive sand tyres. Nevertheless they have only 5 nuts (instead of the 8 or 10 nuts of british trucks).
I join a picture of a MATFORD in “raid configuration” similar to Chevrolet and a picture of civilian MATFORD using civilian body with it wheels very accurate. A large opening has been done on the roof.

Regards Serge

[Kuno]

Serge; as far as I know, the IWM has the wreckage of a Chevrolet WA which was recovered from the desert of Egypt in the 1980ies. Do they also have a restored example of a WA now (as you say in your first post)?

[serge]

Hello KUNO

In my first post about early chevy in the desert war, I had only indicate that a french military vehicle Collector had builded a replica of the original CHEVROLET WA displayed at IMPERIAL WAR MUSEUM. The replica use a civilian CHEVROLET truck and a body identical had been made. Also the fender of the civilian truck were enlarged and a new body was done.
I don't know the way used to install new wheels for sand tyres. Nevertheless the body is full of original jerrycan with a solar compas on the dash board and a rifle "BOY" not seen in the picture.
About the book of colunn LECLERC I have send to you a private email
Best regards Serge

[serge]

hello KUNO

After reading your post , I note that the replica is in France and not in the IWM.

[Kuno]

I would like to see a hoto of the sun-compass, please :-)

[Lynn Eades]

Here is a picture

[Kuno]

Thanks Lynn. But this compass is mounted on a Jeep. I am looking for the one fixed on the French replica-Chevrolet.

I have a particular interest since I kept myself busy for quite some time with this type of sun-compass.

[serge]

Hello TONY

I went at the garage to see the wheels of replica CHEVROLET WB . The dimension tyres are 12.50 X 16. Next time I will send the pic of solar compass actualy dismounted for fear of steal.
On the side of the tyre we can read GOODYEAR MILITARY OZ.
Actualy the truck in the garage of our association (MVCG PARIS) and the owner in WEST of FRANCE. I will ask where he found these tyres.

[serge]

Hello KUNO

I went at the garage and take some pic of the compas. On the CHEVROLET WB replica, the first one is mounted (when its owner is here) and I believe that it's also a replica.
The second , smallest ,is used on an other vehicle (a replica of an unbelivable car use for a movie (un taxi poiur TOBROUK). One guy told me that it was original and used by crew of bomber in case of crash in the aim to return in Great Britain.

Best regards Serge

[Kuno]

Meci, Serge;

The sun-compass with the bigger shadow plate is a Howards Mk.II. It is definitely not WWII but much later - you can find such compass occassionaly "in the Bay" but quite ften it comes without the handle and the style. As far as I know the LRDG did not use the Howard sun-compass (in WWII it would have been the Mk.I).

The smaller one is the Bagnold Sun-Compass. This is THE LRDG compass. Howver - it was definitely not used by Bomber crews but only by the LRDG, SAS, SDF and by the Egyptian army. (As far as I can see, the compass you have on your vehicle is one of Dominic Kaukas' replicas).

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by serge

Hello TONY

I went at the garage to see the wheels of replica CHEVROLET WB . The dimension tyres are 12.50 X 16. Next time I will send the pic of solar compass actualy dismounted for fear of steal.
On the side of the tyre we can read GOODYEAR MILITARY OZ.
Actualy the truck in the garage of our association (MVCG PARIS) and the owner in WEST of FRANCE. I will ask where he found these tyres.

Great work Serge - thanks for getting back to me. On closer inspection of your photo's....it appears those rims may be a modified 16 inch Blitz (CMP) rim.

I think I can see telltales of ground off studs in the pictures......

Like to know where he found the tyres. Your next post should be very interesting Serge

[serge]

Hello TONY

I have had a call phone from the owner of the replica and I ask him information about the wheels and the tires.
You were right : the rear wheel comes from a canadian wheel (I think F15, F15A,C15,C15A, DODGE T110 D60 L5 or even british truck like BEDFORD MWD had the same wheels with 8 nuts) but some modificatons have been done. The center of the wheel was cut and a metalic disc was welded with 10 holes to match with the screws of the drum. I don't know the original truck used to build the replica and I wonder to see it (or it's remain) because the only CHEVROLET (that I know) with a wheel with 10 holes were CC60L truck (MODIFIED CONVENTIONNAL PATTERN) used in desert war with single wheel at the rear and a EATON differential with two speeds like DODGE T110D60L5 or FC60L).
I have a pic of this truck (founded on mapleleaf forum some year ago).
For an unknowed reason the wheels is mounted in the opposite direction (nut to fix the two parts in the inner).

I hope to meet him in one week and spoke with him in front of the truck.
About the tire he told me that the tires are the tires of HUMER H1. I am amazing because on web site the tires of HUMER H1 are 37.5X12.5X16.5 LT and on the tire we don't read these information.

About front wheels it's a mystery and he was unable to give accurate informations.
As soon I meet hime I will send to you an other post

Best regards Serge

[Ganmain Tony]

Wow! What great information...thanks very much Serge...the tyres are still available then? (in France...non?)

Great job on the truck by the restorer and a clever use of resources available.

Keep the info and photo's coming.