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Norrey-en-Bessin on June 9, 1944
Hello!
For a very long time I have been interested in an event that happened on June 9, 1944 near Norrey-en-Bessin. The 3rd Panzerkompanie of SS Panzerregiment 12 was advancing with 12 Panthers when they were taken in the flank by very effective fire that quickly knocked out 7 of the 12 Panthers. It seems that various sources can not agree on which unit was the unit that engaged the Panthers on that day. I have read that it was the Sherbrooke Fusiliers, that it was C Squadron of the First Hussars, that it was the Fort Garry Horse and that it was C Squadron of the Elgin Regiment (25th Armoured Delivery Regiment). The truth would be that it could only have been one of these units, but which one? Would anyone have anymore information on this engagement? Thank you in advance! Cheers, Wolfkin AKA Jon Fitzgerald Calgary,AB,Canada
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Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!! |
#2
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Hi Jon
Read this extensive thread at Canuck relating to some odds and sods about the engagement. The thread: Canuck Forum 1st Hussar link Cheers Michael
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Michael "Waycool" Peters Last edited by Waycool; 16-05-05 at 16:03. |
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Hello Michael!
Thank you very much for that link! Lots of interesting information there and it is comforting to know that I am not the only one that has been perplexed by this engagement! I didn't realize that the website of fellow Calgarian, Michael Dorosh, had such a good Forum...shame on me! I have utilized that website several times for information but never looked at the Forum. Thank you again! Cheers, Jon Fitzgerald Calgary,AB,Canada
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Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!! |
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Quote:
Hello Jon... Yes, Mike Dorosh runs a pretty good operation, and he's a personal friend. Our people post back and forth on each other's forums, so we're really covering two different bases on any given issue! Regards your question there's a fellow here by the name of Mark Tonner who might be able to provide you with more info, as he has most of the regimental histories... he's really our resident historical expert. I'm sure he'll pick up on this thread shortly. Geoff
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support |
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Re: Norrey-en-Bessin on June 9, 1944
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The 3rd Kompanie's attack was launched at 1230hrs, the Canadian armour that would have engaged them would have been "C" Sqn, 6th Cdn Armd Regt (1H). Earlier in the day, a composite Sqn of the Sherbrooke's had engaged a Panther Kompanie to the south-east of Bretteville, with similar results as that of the 1st Hussars later in the afternoon. Hope this answers your question. Cheers
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Mark |
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Re: Norrey-en-Bessin on June 9, 1944
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Professor Reginald H. Roy described it very well in his book "1944 - The Canadians in Normandy", Macmillan of Canada, Ottawa 1984, ISBN 0-7715-9796-7, pages 33-35. But, if I am not mistaken, Canadian success of Norrey-en-Bessin was a "team work" also with participation of the Reginas as well as 3rd Anti-Tank Regiment RCA. Best regards C. |
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Re: Re: Norrey-en-Bessin on June 9, 1944
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The above mentioned is true, but in relation to the question regarding the Panthers of the 3rd Kompanie, it was the tanks of the 1st Hussars that they were engaged by, when the 3rd Kompanie launched their attack on the afternoon of 9 June. Cheers
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Mark |
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Hello Mark!
Yes, of course, you are right, Roy writes more generally about this episode though his thread of the 1st Hussars is identical as you presented. According to him no doubts that successful tank regiment against the Panthers was 1st Hussars. That is why so interesting is first Wolfkin's post indicating that there are the problems to identify correctly who fought against whom at Norrey-en-Bessin. In the Polish threads Roy is not so perfect and he added us three(?) armoured brigades at Normandy whereas we had only one belonging to the Polish 1st Armoured Division. Best regards C. Last edited by Crewman; 18-05-05 at 17:51. |
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Dose any one have another the source for the engagement by the Sherbrooke Fusiliers on the morning of 9th June? The only one I know about is the one in the history of The Royal Canadian armoured Corps by Marteinson and McNorgan. It reads as followers: (p244)
“On the morning of 9 June a composite Sherbrooke squadron under Major Vincent Walsh was sent out on a raid to the southeast of Bretteville l’Orgueilleuse. Soon after setting out, a company of twelve Panthers was spotted advancing rapidly across the open fields toward Norrey-en-Bessin, then held by a single company of the Regina Rifles. The Sherbrooke gunners quickly brought this foray to a halt, knocking out seven Panthers in quick order. Later in the day, 'C' Squadron of the Hussars had similar good shooting against another attack by German tanks just west of Bretteville: “Trooper A. Chapman, crack gunner in Lieut. G.K. Henry's tank, established a bridgehead record. When six tanks penetrated his position he held his fire until all were visible; then with Tpr. 'Sass' Seaman slapping the rounds into the 17-pdr.... He fired five times. Five rounds - five Panthers. Before he got to the sixth one, another "C" Sqn. tank, commanded by Sgt. Boyle, had accounted for it.” There is no reference to any tank battles on the morning of 9th June in Hubert Mayer’s, Craig Luther’s, or Herbert Walter’s books on the history of the 12th SS. They cover the attacks by 1st and 4th Companies on the night of 8/9th June and the attack of 3rd company in the early afternoon, but have nothing occurring between these two attacks. To me it appears that all three Armoured Regiments in 2nd CAB were claiming credit for the destruction of the 3rd company. The response posted by Bill Alexander on the Canuck site appears to be the most logical one I have seen. Quote:
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Hello all!
Thank you all for your responses! This is also where things get quite confusing for me! I have checked Fields Of Fire by Terry Copp, The Royal Canadian Armoured Corps by the RCAC Association, The Panzers And The Battle Of Normandy by Georges Bernage, Steel Inferno by Michael Reynolds and The History Of The 12th SS Panzer Division by Hubert Meyer. None of these sources can seem to agree on this engagement. It does make me wonder if there was actually only one engagement on June 9, 1944 and that perhaps this engagement is being treated as if two engagements happened? This composite squadron is interesting. It seems there were troops from all of the regiments of the Canadian 2nd Armoured Brigade in this composite squadron. Confusing indeed! One thing is for certain though, the Canadians got the better of this round, that's for sure! Cheers, Jon Fitzgerald Calgary,AB,Canada
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Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!! |
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When it comes to Norrey-en-Bessin also Maj.-Gen. Harry W. Foster mentions it in his memoirs I quoted several times at the MLU. The same goes for "Bloody Victory" by the historians J. L. Granatstein and Desmond Morton. Today and tomorrow I am very busy but in the weekend to come I will check if I would be able to add something interesting to your and Mark's posts. Best regards C. |
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Hello!
I will be looking forward to any further information regarding this engagement Crewman! Cheers, Jon Fitzgerald Calgary,AB,Canada
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Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!! |
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About Bretteville/Norrey-en-Bessin region action.
These are Maj.-Gen. Harry W. Foster, Lt.-Col. Foster Matheson and SS-Brigadeführer Kurt Meyer's viewpoints. The quotation from Tony Foster's "Meeting of Generals": --------------------------------------------------------- "As the force neared Bretteville and the shooting started, Kurt Meyer sent a few of the tanks ahead to smash through the Canadian lines. Sectors of the Regina Rifles were overrun in the first collision of combat. A few Panthers pushed to within 300 yards of the Battalion HQ in Bretteville. But the Reginas held. Unknowingly, he had led his force directly into the strongest part of the Canadian line. German casualties mounted quickly". Quote:
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The action by The Regina Rifles is one of my favorite reads. The vaunted Waffen SS released a major attack and our John's dealt with them in what ranks as some of the finest IMHO close combat actions fought during the Normandy Campaign.
Cardonville Farm is one of the most interesting actions. At 0430 hours 8 or 10 German tanks withdrew from Bretteville to harbour a short distance away. The Germans were totally unaware that they had located themselves in D Company's area at Cardonville Farm. The Company commander, Gordon Brown, relates that when he had taken over the farm earlier, he decided to make the best possible defensive use of its large stone farmhouse and the thick stone walls that surrounded it and the outbuildings. There was a small apple orchard behind the barn and the rear portion of the wall. There, he located two anti-tank guns to cover the open ground, west towards Putot. From that position also, the artillery forward observation officer (FOO) could maintain radio contact with his guns from his Bren gun carrier. A three-inch mortar was sited there also, and a platoon of infantry was assigned the area to provide defence from the rear. The men set to work knocking holes in the walls for rifle and machine gun positions, digging slit trenches for cover, and stocking up on ammunition. Although the company had lost a number of weapons in the first two days of action, they had acquired many captured German machine guns and German ammunition. However, the greatest problem that the company faced was fatigue. The men had been going for more than three days without sleep, and the strain of the landing and the advance inland was beginning to take its toll. The local people had remained in the farm buildings despite warnings about the dangers of staying. They had dug a bomb shelter in the front courtyard and had been using it for some time. A railway line ran right past the front stone wall. Trains using the line had come under attack, and a disabled train sat on the tracks 100 yards to the left of the company position. In the early evening of June 8 German tanks crossed the railway line in front of the farm and plunged into the area between C and D Company on their way to Bretteville, completely ignoring C Company in Norrey and D Company at the farm. The tanks moved on towards the battalion headquarters position in the town 1,000 yards behind D Company apparently unaware that anyone was occupying the farm. Brown relates that it was easy to carry out the apparently incredible order he had been given by the Battalion commander to ignore the tanks. However, he decided to see if he could turn his anti-tank weapons around and aim them at the now vulnerable German armour. On running to the orchard he was able to count about 10 tanks in the coloured glow of a Verey light which had been fired from Bretteville. Brown found the FOO in his Bren gun carrier in exhausted sleep. He shook him awake and asked him to get in touch with his Regiment or with battalion headquarters on the gunner net. The FOO tried his radio but could get nothing but static. Thankfully, there had been no infantry to follow-up the German armoured attack, but after pounding Bretteville, the tanks returned to the area near D Company's position at the farm. Brown was able to make out at least six tanks at the corners and the sides of the orchard. None of them were more than 75 feet from his position. He decided to remain quiet so as to not reveal his position, and prepared a quick attack on each tank simultaneously. Any precipitous action on the part of the soldiers defending the orchard would have invited disaster, and the men were cautioned not to fire on the tanks since rifles and machine guns were useless against them. Brown then headed back to the house to organize three-man tank hunting teams inside the walls. As he was doing so, he heard a sudden burst of automatic fire in the orchard. Two tank commanders had dismounted in the darkness only a few feet from Corporal W. Ritchie who could not resist the opportunity. Although he killed both, he himself was killed and the German tanks roared into action. They machine-gunned the slit trenches causing many casualties, and destroyed the anti-tank guns and the vehicles. The exploding shells set the barn and hay on fire, lighting up the whole area as bright as day and creating a terrific heat. One of the tanks began to batter down the heavy wooden gate near the barn, but with no infantry to support it, the tank left off, unwilling to chance what might be inside. D Company's casualties mounted, and they were soon down to about 50 all ranks. The tanks circled the walls of the farm, firing, but still not coming inside. Finally, as first light broke through, the tanks withdrew fearing Typhoon planes would arrive from England. It was an hour or so after this that the German infantry arrived. Brown was having a difficult time trying to keep the men of his company awake because they were now entering the fourth day without sleep. Finally, he was able to establish communications with battalion headquarters at Bretteville and to report his situation to Matheson. The company needed artillery support and fast. The artillery commander of 13 Field Regiment (of which 44 Battery from Prince Albert, was a part) was standing right beside Matheson when the frantic call came in and he was able to call down fire almost immediately. Dozens of shells impacted 50 to 200 yards in front of D Company's position, and the Germans, caught in the open, were forced to withdraw. All the companies of the Battalion had once again held their ground, and there were no further German attacks on their positions. That night, unit positions were strengthened, patrols were sent out, and the groggy men were able to snatch a few hours sleep. Source Stewart A.G. Mein, Up the Johns! The Story of the Royal Regina Rifles. The Senate of The Royal Regina Rifles, Turner-Warwick Publications, North Battleford, Saskatchewan, 1992. Note: The "Johns" (or "Farmer Johns") is the nickname of the Regina Rifles. For more info this link has further accounts. The Regina Rifles Up the Johns!
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Michael "Waycool" Peters |
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Michael,
What a beautiful PanOceanic cooperation! We collected pretty nice story from our books Thanks for below explanation. I did not know this nickname of the Reginas. Quote:
C. |
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And one more interesting fragment:
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"... tanks of the Fort Garry Horse, attached to the 1st Hussars..." --> maybe this sentence is a reason of the controversy which regiment destroyed the Panthers then? What do you think? Best regards C. |
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Panthers
Here is a photo showing three of the 3rd Company Panthers KOed on the 9th of June. The photo is by Michael Dean and was taken on the 8th of July. The photo is from the National Archives of Canada and is either PA-162713 or PA-162714.
http://www.agencephotosmemorial.com/...83-IMG0075.jpg Source http://www.agencephotosmemorial.com/index.asp |
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Re: Panthers
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Looks like destroying by 17-pd machine gun Either this combat was so fierce or this tank served later on as a training target. There are at least 12 hits in extremely good concentration. Last edited by Crewman; 26-05-05 at 10:43. |
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Re: Re: Panthers
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It may not be the same Panther, but yes, afterwards they were used for PIAT training by Canadian Infantrymen. Cheers
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Mark |
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Hello guys!
Sorry for not replying sooner, it was a long busy week at the plant, sure glad the weekend is here! Thanks for all the further information in this thread and the great pictures! This is some great stuff! I think all the battles from June 7 to June 9, 1944 in Normandy involving the Canadians are interesting. I also think that many sources paint the wrong picture about these battles and do not give the Canadians the proper amount of credit. All of the German counterattacks toward the beaches fell on the British and Canadian sectors, 21st Panzer Division against the British and 12th SS Panzer Division against the Canadians. The major share of the fighting fell upon the shoulders of the soldiers of the British and Canadian units. Cheers, Jon Fitzgerald Calgary,AB,Canada
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Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!! |
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