1939 CMP? on Ebay

[shrapnel]

I'm not an expert on truck but this one on Ebay seems interesting...
http://cgi.ebay.ca/WWII-1939-FORD-80...spagenameZWDVW

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

The same guy has a Humber too..
http://cgi.ebay.ca/WWII-HUMBER-COMMA...QQcmdZViewItem

[rob love]

Looks like a 41 to me. The air intake louvers indicate it is past the 5000 or 6000 production number. I don't know the exact cutoff, but I know the louvers came in somewhere between 5000 and 10,000.

[Paul Singleton]

The seller with the F-8 cab 11 also has a Humber on Ebay. It is interesting that vehicles like this are still turning up 60 years later!
http://cgi.ebay.ca/WWII-HUMBER-COMMA...QQcmdZViewItem

Paul

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by rob love

Looks like a 41 to me. The air intake louvers indicate it is past the 5000 or 6000 production number. I don't know the exact cutoff, but I know the louvers came in somewhere between 5000 and 10,000.

The louvres may be a bit of a red herring as the rest of the truck looks Cab 11. I've emailed the seller for additional info, such as the build date on the data plates. This might be an early F8 cab 11. Derek.

[cletrac (RIP)]

It's definitely a cab 11 and the louvres indicate a build date of mid 1940 or later. The attached picture shows what the prototypes looked like in 1939.

[Grant Bowker]

I think we have discussed this seller, their identity and the quality of what they sell in past on this forum in the context of a C8A HUP/HUW/ZL variant. My memory is that opinions varied widely from "wonderful" to "looks good from far but is far from good".

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

I think we have discussed this seller, their identity and the quality of what they sell in past on this forum in the context of a C8A HUP/HUW/ZL variant. My memory is that opinions varied widely from "wonderful" to "looks good from far but is far from good".

Evening all, I just received a reply to my question sent earlier today asking the seller to double check the data plate for date of manufacture. Here's his reply:

Dear corporald,
Good afternoon Derek Thank you for your email. We did he best we could in an ice-cold dark barn. Think we remember reading 1939. It seems to us that the differences are academic due to the rarity of any variety of these early WWII trucks. Please feel fee to email us again if we can assist in your bidding. Cheers Walt

[cletrac (RIP)]

The only way to tell the date on a cab 11 Ford is to look at the serial number that's stamped into the frame under the passenger side door. A 1G prefix is 1940 production and 2G is 1941. They didn't have a data plate with the date on the early trucks as far as I can tell. I wonder where he found the 1939? The cab 12s had the date on a data plate.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I looked at his other items on ebay and it's interesting to note that most of them don't get a single bid.
He says the Humber is in the final stages of restoration but it doesn't look like he's started on it yet. I guess maybe all my acquisitions are in the final stages of restoration too if I use his standards.

[cliff]

it is a late production 11cab. The early ones had no louvres, just a flat panel and the later ones had the louvres. So as has been mentioned it is more likely to be a 1941.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Cliff, my cab 11 F15A has serial number 1G 10495 F on the frame which makes its production date in August 1940 and it has the louvers and Chev rear ends.Isn't 1941 production all cab 12s?

[cliff]

you are probably quite right but production of the 11 cabs did not start till April 1940 according to Greg's Blueprint for Victory book. As for cab 12's they probably did not start production until 1941 but when is the question. One sure thing is though that the pictured vehicle is not 1939 but late production 1940 or early 1941 as it has the air vents in the front panels either side of the grill.

Another way maybe to find out is when did production of 8cwt 4X2's stop? The 8cwt were fazed out in favour of the 15cwt and this date may give a bearing as to age.

I also looked at the Humber photos and if that is photos of an almost fully restored vehicle my wheelchair is Ford V8 powered.

[Alex van de Wetering]

The thing that caught my eye on this F8, was another example of the lenghtened "short box". Every once in a while one pops up and it seems all of them are located in Canada, or recently transported from Canada.
These lenghtened boxes have been discussed on MLU before and I would be interesting to discuss this issue a little further. I don't have any good arguments, but I tend to think they were lenghtened by the Army during ww2 for homeland use and never left the continent; possibly the 8cwt Wireless trucks were converted to GS trucks as a solution for a shortage of jeeps and or 15cwt's on the homeland (?)

Alex

p.s. the windscreen on that Humber does look a little odd. or is it just the rubber?

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

These lenghtened boxes have been discussed on MLU before and I would be interesting to discuss this issue a little further. I don't have any good arguments, but I tend to think they were lenghtened by the Army during ww2 for homeland use and never left the continent; possibly the 8cwt Wireless trucks were converted to GS trucks as a solution for a shortage of jeeps and or 15cwt's on the homeland (?)

The lengthening of the cargo box on all the smaller CMPs were a standard operating procedure for the farmers on the prairies. Besides extending the cargo box, they also reversed the wheel wells, and cut a grain chute into the tailgate. Also, quite often, the tailgate would be heightened.

I have also seen examples where two or even three 15cwt cargo boxes were lined up and welded together to make a new box for the 3 ton.

[peter simundson]

You're right. The Humber is sad and needs major work. The fact the tranny's out and a gear was "repaired" is not good news. The vehicle is in the same condition he found it in 20 years ago with a neat bronze paint coat.
The 8cwt has been sitting in the barn for 20 years. I would be suspicious of the engine being "apart". It was complete and in the truck when he bought it (I found it). He's selling everything slowly. One item at a time. Ed and him are partners.

[Nick Bullock]

Hi peter
Any idea what happened to the C8A ZL from the same shed??
regards
nick

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Nick Bullock

Any idea what happened to the C8A ZL from the same shed??

Good question Nick, and aren't these the same guys who were trying to sell the HUP out of the Borden museum, or am I thinking of someone else? Derek.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Nick Bullock

Any idea what happened to the C8A ZL from the same shed??

Hi Nick,

It went to a good home in Canada. I saw it last November, and it actually wasn't as bad as some people told me it was. Actually, it was so good I would love to own it!

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

p.s. the windscreen on that Humber does look a little odd. or is it just the rubber?

No, it's the late style windscreen. It indeed looks odd compared to the early style.

H.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Canadian orders placed in 1940 continued into 1941 with 1940 numbers, but all of the earliest British orders though placed 22nd June 1940, or thereabouts, were 1941 Models. Thus there were parallel models for some months! The # 12 cab and of course # 42 was a 1941 change and I have the Chevrolet cut-off somewhere.

I have the 1940 Ford engine numbers by month so can date the engine although they could then have sat around for a time pending chassis installation.

[Alex van de Wetering]

No, it's the late style windscreen. It indeed looks odd compared to the early style.

H.

I am not fully convinced Hanno. Although I know the late models had the windscreen with radiussed corners, the only restored example I have seen (named "Pandora") varies from the one for sale on Ebay now (different radius, no radius on center column of windscreen and different roof line). Also the ones I have seen have a different dash layout (gauges in-line) and have fully winding down windows in the front doors, in stead of the bar and small window shown on the Ebay Humber box front doors. It might just be the picture quality, but something seems odd....

[Nick Bullock]

think you are right Alex, I thought it looked a little odd when I frst saw it. On closer inspection there are amny small differences, it looks to have had a serious 'makeover' at some stage, the proprion of the glazing appears wrong some how, could the roof have been lifted? certainly the windscreen is much deeper than the one on the vehicle we have here. Also the dash has been adapted, the original is a very shallow afar, this one here even has a glove box! Also the seting has been changed to accomodate a wider seat up from and has used parts of the original 'fold flat' rear seats to make a larger bech type seat... I'd guess that some one one up ona time spent a lot of cash on it.. looks to sit lower on the springs too... still nice trucks though!
got the C8 home yet?
kind regards
nick

[Alex van de Wetering]

the proprion of the glazing appears wrong some how, could the roof have been lifted?

So, it's not just me? I had the same thought.....could the roof have been lifted...or is the slope of the front windscreen slightly off? Either way, the hight of the windscreen glass seems to be a little too high.
I have to agree.....I always liked the Humber box. A pity I missed the 8cwt Wireless Humber at Beltring, last year.

No, haven't got the C8 yet. Waiting for the builders to remove their trailer from the garden now their work is finished. Only a short while now.

Alex

[Nick Bullock]

looking again, I'm wondering if the top of the scuttle has been modified in some way and indoing so the dash has also been altered, In the example we have here its the nastiest rustiest part of the whole job.. so it may have been a repair / modification?? not long to wait then....

[peter simundson]

When he got it it was totally empty. The interior was remade from photos.
The story about where it was used during WW2 is hogwash.
It went out west to an aggressive buyer who wanted it badly. All in all sold at a reasonable price for a cosmetically restored vehicle. The seller doesn't know a box end from an open end and does no work himself.
In other words if it limps coming in it limps going out.

[PPS]

Just to put my two penn'orth in

In my dim distant past (probably the dimmer the better) there was a ex-Army Humber Staff Car used as a tow vehicle at the garage where I started my apprenticeship.

Looking at the photo's posted on the seller's ad, I don't remember:-

A bench seat for the front passenger
A glove box
A high roof as shown
A windscreen that shape
A dash/instrument panel different to that shown

What I do seem to remember is a solid lump of machinery that could be a pig to start, and drive, at times (although I was too young I did try) and a data plate, in brass, which I think was where the glove box is shown.

As a matter of interest, was there not more wooden bits on the exterior

Paul.

[Gordons]

As mentioned these are part of Frank Grant's collection " Canadain Military studies museum" selling thru Ed Fedora of Fort Henry Antiques.

[Mike Timoshyk]

All I can say is help....how many trucks does it take to bake a cake?

cheers

Mike in Windsor

[Jim Price]

Does anyone know the name of the buyer and their location of this Humber? I need to contact them.

Thanks,
Jim Price