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  #1  
Old 18-10-05, 22:38
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Default Crooked white star

On a lot of photos it shows the White Star recognition symbol (of WW2) on Canadian vehicles in Europe at a slight angle.

Was this Common practice or just on the occasional vehicle?

Also I have seen both the star and roundel used as air recognision on the roof of vehicles in Europe.

Which was more common on Canadian vehicles, the roundel or the white star?

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  #2  
Old 18-10-05, 22:54
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Richard Farrant Richard Farrant is offline
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Default Re: Crooked white star

Quote:
Originally posted by cliff
On a lot of photos it shows the White Star recognition symbol (of WW2) on Canadian vehicles in Europe at a slight angle.
Cliff,

I believe this is was the Canadian soldiers way of objecting to have the "symbol of US forces" on their vehicles. Some were applied with point downwards.

No doubt the Canadians on this forum have got a fuller story on this.

Richard
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  #3  
Old 18-10-05, 23:03
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Steve Guthrie found an interesting tidbit about this subject in 2002 - see the thread White Star on the old MLU forum. Here's hoping Steve can repost the drawing attached to the instructions here...

H.


Source: http://www.mapleleafup.net/vehicles/.../wreck_04.html
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  #4  
Old 19-10-05, 01:45
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Default White Star drawing..

Hello Hanno

Here it is

Steve
Quote:
SECRET
2D/9-6-2
HQ 2 Cdn Inf Div
16 April 44

VEH MARKINGS
Recognition marks
White stars five pointed

1. The m/n recognition marks will be painted on all ‘A’ and ‘B’ vehs, SP guns and mob mech eqpt. RAF and vehs and eqpt (marked with the Geneva cross) will not carry the white star.

2. All amd vehs (include. SP guns, carriers, half tracks, trucks 15-cwt 4x4 personnel, White scout cars) will carry the recognition marks on the top only in accordance with para 4 below.

3. All vehs and eqpts other than armd vehs will carry the sign on the top and both sides in accordance with paras 4 and 5 below.

4. On the top of the veh or eqpt the mark will be painted on the largest horizontal or near horizontal plane surface. It will NOT be carried on the cab over the co-dvrs seat (to be holed for AALMG). It will not be carried in a posn that is liable to be covered with stores, stowage or eqpts.

5. On sides it will be carried on vertical or near vertical plane surfaces NOT usually covered by fittings and eqpts.

6. Size

(a) Top - as large as possible but not less than one foot measured from center to outside of band.

(b) Sides - as large as possible but not less than 3 ins measured from center to tips

(c) If space does not permit the above minimus sizes no marks will be carried

7. Requirements for white lead GS paint (Cat. HA0293) will be submitted by units to the ADOS office. Indents will indicate the purpose for which the paint is required, number of vehs to be painted and minimum requirements for paint. No background paint will be issued.

8. The present recognition (Red White Red) marks used on AFV’s will be removed.

9. Appx

10 Recogniton marks will NOT be painted on canvas, canopies or tarps

(Signature)
(J H Adams) Maj
DAQMG
for AA & QMG 2 Cdn Inf Div

Note The circular surrounding band is 4 ins wide. It will be added on TOPS ONLY, NOT SIDES.

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  #5  
Old 19-10-05, 16:14
centurion centurion is offline
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The Churchill AVRE at Bovingdon appears to have a crooked star on its turret top much as per the Canadian vehicles. Perhaps the dislike of having a US marking was shared.
Picture from Bovingdon web site enclosed
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  #6  
Old 19-10-05, 23:30
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Thanks for the answers guys. I really appreciate it.

cheers
Cliff
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  #7  
Old 01-12-05, 17:59
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See this interesting pic on eBay: WWII Allied STAR ID Canada Post Truck Pre-D-Day Photo Item number: 6584331830
Quote:
An Original & Authentic 8 x 10 Inch US Army WWII First View of "Liberation Star" Insignia For D-Day Invasion May 1944 Dated Official Signal Corps News Period Photograph.
This photo shows the white star, designated as the identification marking of the liberation forces to be deployed to the ETO at Normandy. The star was used on all Allied ground forces during the rest of WWII. Note the truck is Canadian. The location is England, just before the invasion. The unit marking is censored for deletion, indicating the truck was assigned to the Canadian Postal Corps.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-05, 00:43
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Default Postal what?

Hi there

3rd Div postal unit had a AoS of '80' white on black, 4th Armd Dive had a '44' ditto. 2 Corps was '84'

Can someone see under the censor's mark?

It should be a formation sign, but which one?

I wonder what the date is? May 1944 jives with the 'Liberation Star' but what about the Field Service cap the squaddie is wearing?

I wonder why the US Army Signal corps took a picture of one of our trucks?

Steve
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  #9  
Old 06-12-05, 17:03
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How's this for making clear who you are?!?!
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  #10  
Old 02-09-08, 12:06
lynx42 lynx42 is offline
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I guess if I was driving a GERMAN truck through Europe in the later stages of the War, I would also have BIG recognisable Allied markings too.
I think it's an Opel Blitz.
Regards Rick
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  #11  
Old 02-09-08, 12:28
Richard Coutts-Smith Richard Coutts-Smith is offline
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I note that the Chev has the "Inboard" clearance lights, my C60S's have the holes for both, Hmmmm.....wonder if it was to do with the fitment of the raiator condensor? Just thought of that, it's always bugged me.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-08, 13:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx42 View Post
I think it's an Opel Blitz.
Regards Rick
It is a Steyr 1500 ??
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  #13  
Old 02-09-08, 22:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff View Post
It is a Steyr 1500 ??
Yes, the Steyr 1500A light truck.

H.
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  #14  
Old 28-09-08, 16:28
TColvin TColvin is offline
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Default Canadian objection to the Liberation star?

Can anyone provide evidence that any Canadian, or British, soldier objected to the Liberation star because it was perceived as American?

There was annoyance among British soldiers about Yanks taking their women, but Canadians did that as well.

There were jibes about Americans being overpaid, oversexed and overhere, answered by Americans saying Brits were underpaid, undersexed and underike.

But I never heard the Liberation star being called American. The need for it was obvious, and there was no alternative, was there?

Neither were the white D-Day stripes painted on all aircraft, to my knowledge, ever described as being American.

Stars and stripes for ever? I don't think it occurred to anyone, and, if it did, no one minded.

They had bigger things on their mind - such as staying alive.

Tony
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  #15  
Old 30-09-08, 01:08
lynx42 lynx42 is offline
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I believe the correct term for the Star, be it White, Yellow, with a circle or without is the "Allied Recognition Sign".

The first use of the circle around the star was for operation 'Husky', the invasion of Sicily in July 1943. The recommended colour of that circle was YELLOW. If yellow was not available then white, red or blue in that order.

One Dodge Weapons Carrier here in OZ, had the yellow circle and the name 'Umpire' on the hood, until the owner restored it and just put the white circle. Thus destroying it's authentic provenance.

The American Armoured Corp, did not like removing their pre-war Yellow Star if favour of the ordered White Star. This order came through in December 1942. Infact General Patton kept the Yellow Star on his Scoutcar, Halftrack and Dodge right through the war.

I have a listing of some of the order numbers for the changes to the Allied Signs through WW2, but as I am shifting house, they are boxed up and put somewhere to be re-discovered at a later time.

Hope this helps.
Regards Rick
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Humber FV1601A
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  #16  
Old 30-10-08, 16:58
Eric B Eric B is offline
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Default US Star

I talked to a few Vets who did not like the US Star on their vehicles.

Before D-Day the Canadians and British troops used something similar to the RAF Roundal. It did not stand out as much as the Star and therefore was not as nice of a target to shoot at.

From my understanding the US Forces in Italy were the only ones to use the Star. It was also on all of their vehicles in the UK. The Vets refered to it as the US Star, not the Invasion or Allied star.

They placed the star on the angle to show that they were not US Forces. They also took every oppertunity to muddy, subdue, or paint over it once in the field.

Thanks

Eric
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  #17  
Old 04-10-09, 17:17
Rob MacDonald Rob MacDonald is offline
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They also painted the circle around the star much wider (and the star much smaller) to emphasise the difference.

Most Canadian troops REALLY hated having the US insignia on their vehicles - remember that the No. 1 threat/invasion scenario (from the War of 1812, through the Fenian Raids up until the US actually entered the war in 1941) was an American invasion of Canada and to this day the quickest way to recieve a fist in the mouth is to call a Canadian soldier a 'yank'.

Nothing personal, y'unnerstand - we just aren't and don't want to be Americans.
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  #18  
Old 04-10-09, 20:13
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Default Accents

Quote:
Nothing personal, y'unnerstand - we just aren't and don't want to be Americans.
That's why we listen closely to an accent before hazarding a guess about where someone is from. When in doubt it's always safer to say: 'You're from Canada aren't you?'
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  #19  
Old 04-10-09, 21:34
malcolm erik bogaert malcolm erik bogaert is offline
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Default invasion star

thats all very well but technicly your both north-americans...regards malcolm
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  #20  
Old 05-10-09, 02:06
Rob MacDonald Rob MacDonald is offline
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...and ONE day we'll have 50 new provinces!

then as now the adoption of an 'American' insignia was a defensive measure against 'friendly fire' incidents involving US aircraft.
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  #21  
Old 05-10-09, 20:26
malcolm erik bogaert malcolm erik bogaert is offline
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Default invasion star

an old WW2 Veteran once told that when the Luftwaffe flew over they didnt bother taking cover or even the RAF...but when the USAF flew over....everybody took cover regards malcolm
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Old 05-10-09, 22:47
Rob MacDonald Rob MacDonald is offline
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It would be funny if it wasn't usually tragic: the INFALLIBLE way to get the lads to speed up digging any defensive position is to say "Oh and by the way, we have American air support!"

They start digging like bloody badgers!
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  #23  
Old 08-06-15, 16:24
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Default U.s. Star marks allied invasion vehicles

Quote:
"NEW YORK BUREAU
U.S. STAR MARKS ALLIED INVASION VEHICLES

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ENGLAND – The five pointed white star which, until recently, marked trucks, tanks and other vehicles of the U.S. forces, will mark all vehicles of the Allied Expeditionary Force for the forthcoming invasion. An example ofh the complete integration of men and equipment under the command of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, the “invasion star” here, (above), is shown being painted on British Army vehicles “somewhere in England.” This photo was radioed from London to New York tonight.
Credit: Acme radio photo 5-31-44"
Source: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/show...at=3020&page=2

Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 12-06-15 at 09:46. Reason: added source
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  #24  
Old 09-06-15, 07:20
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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Default War Diary reference

From the War Diary of the 27th Canadian Armoured Regiment 30 Jun 44:

Quote:
"... Unit remained in position NE of Le Vey during the day. Orders have been issued that all white stars on the sides of tanks are to be painted out with drab. Green camouflage paint is now available and tanks will be repainted with this in place of the brown. ..."
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  #25  
Old 01-02-20, 10:35
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Here is a nice story about the allied recognition star: "When the liberators drove into Hillegom, The Netherlands, this reportedly moved Jan Berbee very much. So when he got his own transport company back on the road, he adorned his cars with the five-pointed star for many years. As a tribute to the Americans, Canadians and Englishmen who risked their lives for the people in the Netherlands."

The photo shows some of their trucks in the 1990s, the star has been dropped from their current livery.

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  #26  
Old 19-09-20, 10:32
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C8A with 2nd TAF, Normandy 1944. Notice how the white star is “squeezed” making it look thinner.

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  #27  
Old 19-09-20, 23:48
chrisgrove chrisgrove is offline
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Default Crooked white star

For some years I have been under the impression, perhaps mistaken, that somewhere, sometime, there was a Canadian order that their white stars were to be painted with one point facing forward (whereas the normal for other nations was with one point facing upward). The 'point forward' placing does make it look as f the star is just a little different from the normal. But the reason could just be that there was an order for this to be done.
Chris
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  #28  
Old 20-09-20, 00:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisgrove View Post
...The 'point forward' placing does make it look as f the star is just a little different from the normal. But the reason could just be that there was an order for this to be done.
Chris
The first two pics support that thought...
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