Iltis comms- radio

Marc Montgomery · #1 19-07-11, 01:22

out of curiousity as evidenced by one of my doghouses, why would one radio be installed facing forward in the doghouse as per usual while another is mounted on top facing backward?

Marc Montgomery · #2 23-07-11, 14:06

ok, so noone knows why 2 radios would have been mounted one on top of the other but facing in opposite directions in the limited space in the back of the jeep

question 2-did the CF ever use the 30w ampllifier for the PRC-25 prc 77?

Marc Montgomery · #3 23-07-11, 18:45

Terry, my particular SFOR jeep was in Bosnia, apparently roto 13.when the RCDs were there, Dean Milner in command from what I know.

alas no tac signs found, just "9" on the fender as the only marking in spite of careful sanding of usual spots on bumpers etc.
86158 cfr

Jon Skagfeld · #4 24-07-11, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

ok, so noone knows why 2 radios would have been mounted one on top of the other but facing in opposite directions in the limited space in the back of the jeep

question 2-did the CF ever use the 30w ampllifier for the PRC-25 prc 77?

Extremely doubtful ref 30W amp in CF service.

I got one from Israel, but it's missing the CY-2577 battery box which apparently contains a cable required for final connection.

Love to try it out and compare to RT 524 for "punch".

Marc Montgomery · #5 25-07-11, 01:05

thanks Jon!
I was wondering about that possible configuration as <theoretically> it would give the same performance as 524 (which Im looking for)
but, no point really IF we can get more confirmation the CF didn't use that amp...

Im waiting to get in touch with BGen Milner to see if he remembers anything about his jeep at the time, or if he has any photos of it,, and what he remembers about his radio configuration...Of course he would have had plenty of other serious priorites at the time, and of couse since..but its worth trying.

still curious about the two radios mounted facing in opposite directions..any thoughts?

also Scotty says he can't remember a c-2299 being used with the Iltis even with two radios...?

Scott Bentley · #6 25-07-11, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

Ref A: C-53-442-000/ME-000 Installation Instruction Electronics Equipment
RADIO SET AN/VRC-46 OR AN/GRC-160 IN TRUCK UTILITY, LIGHT 4 X 4, MILITARY DESIGN ILTIS CANADIAN, BASIC, ECC 121501. 1985-08-06 Ch 1 1993-02-25.

This installation instruction covers the installation of one, two or three transceivers in the Bombardier Iltis. It demonstrates several combinations of transceivers such as RT-524; PRC-77 (plus AM-2060); PRC-66B and PRC-515 (HF radio).

The stores lists (Ref A page 2-4) lists nsn 5820-00-892-3340 Control, Radio Set, C-2299/VRC. The section 2 Second Radio Set, demonstrates the installation of the C-2299 control, and the connection between the two MT-1029 mounts using two CX-4723/VRC cables. The C-2299 is mounted on the top of the second doghouse (NSN 5820-21-897-0351 Base, Assembly ,MTG).

Figure 3-2-11 (sheet 1 of 2) Page 3-2-16 shows a photograph of the C-2299 and the cabling. (note the figure is incorrectly labelled as (sheet 1 of 2 Control C-2298 and cabling). Figure 3-2-11 "(Sheet 2 of 2) page 3-2-17 lists "Route the two cables CX-4723 from behind the mounting bases and connect their free ends to C-2299 control as follows:
CX-4723/VRC, 3 ft to J702
CX-4723/VRC, 5 ft to J701."

Cheers!
Stuart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

Im waiting to get in touch with BGen Milner to see if he remembers anything about his jeep at the time, or if he has any photos of it,, and what he remembers about his radio configuration...Of course he would have had plenty of other serious priorites at the time, and of couse since..but its worth trying.

also Scotty says he can't remember a c-2299 being used with the Iltis even with two radios...?

Stuart,
All I ever saw was the two Handsets clipped to the Roll Cage. Each was marked with a piece of tape and black marker to indicate the Net it was for. Not sexy, but that was reality. Still better than the 77 Set with the 10' Sectional Antenna sticking out the Door like the Reserve Units. According to that CFTO you posted, the C-2299 was pretty conveniently mounted on top of the Dog House (insert sarcasm) in the boot of the Iltis. So, on the Dual Installation Iltis' I used over the years, they (2299) may have actually been there, but we most likely just bypassed them by plugging directly into the face of Sets. Especially since rarely if ever was someone sitting in the back seat to switch between A and B for you. My Job was never Signals, but using Comms stuff was an everyday part of it. If things worked fine, I seldom remember the details. Turning metal Coat Hangers into "Clippy Things" on the Roll Cage for the 2 Handsets in the Iltis was something I vividly remember doing, using a C-2299 in an Iltis isn't registering, but according to that CFTO clearly i'm wrong. Anyway, maybe its "Aluminum Pot Syndrome" setting in finally....

Mont,
I'll be curious to see what BGen Milner (Sir to me

) remembers about the TCCCS/IRIS installs in his Iltis. Mind you from what Terry Warner pointed out, he most likely used a LAV III or an SUV. Thinking harder back to my SFOR days thats making more sense. The OC's generally used a version of what ever their minions were driving, ie our OC (Engr Sqn) had a Bison, and i'm pretty sure the Recce Sqn OC had a Cougar, and FP Coy OC a Grizzly/Bison. Working the Zgon Gate from time to time in 1998, most of the Iltis I saw were being used by LO's, Monitors, etc. Our Sergeant Major also had one, but spent most of his time in the OC's Bison. When you're arriving to a negotiation about handing over weapons or giving back land etc etc, i'm sure 9'er would have preferred arriving in a LAV just for the psychological effect that a 25mm Cannon gives you over say, an Iltis. Without a Tac Sign to go with it, that "9" on your Iltis could have easily been left on there from one of the many Units it served with prior to Bosnia:

VMO History for CFR Number : 86158
VMO Type Pending To ECC To AC To HUIC To DA UIC
DLE22449 - 19-Sep-05 REGULAR No 121501 MB 1941 1941
DLE26610 - 14-Jun-04 REGULAR No 121501 MD 1941 1941
DLE25103 - 01-Mar-04 REGULAR No 121501 EV 1941 1941
DLE25041 - 19-Feb-04 REGULAR No 121501 ET 3153 3153
DLE20811 - 13-Mar-03 REGULAR No 121501 ET 3153 3153
DLE20148 - 24-Jan-03 REGULAR No 121501 EW 3162 3162
DLE29439 - 20-Nov-02 REGULAR No 121501 EW 1941 1941
DLE28022 - 22-Aug-02 REGULAR No 121501 AS 0114 0114
DLE27527 - 09-Jul-02 REGULAR No 121501 AX 1941 1941
DLE28578 - 10-Sep-00 REGULAR No 121501 HX 0127 0127
DLE28922 - 31-Jan-98 N1368 No 121501 HX 0127 0127
DLE28108 - 08-Oct-97 N1368 No 121501 HX 3537 3537
DLE24124 - 30-Aug-96 REGUL No 121501 HX 0109 0109
DP356102 - 20-Sep-92 REGUL No 121501 AX 2481 2481
DP354432 - 29-Apr-92 REGUL No 121501 AS 0122 0122
DP353653 - 22-Nov-89 REGUL No 121501 AX 2481 2481
DP359973 - 04-Apr-89 UPDAT No 121501 AS 1732 1732
DP355138 - 29-May-88 REGUL No 121501 AZ 1941 1941
DP355047 - 20-May-88 CANCE No 121501 HX 1941 1941
DP354477 - 08-Apr-88 REGUL No 121501 AX 2477 2477
DP352737 - 19-Nov-87 REGUL No 121501 HX 1941 1941
F86-121 - 27-Mar-86 UPDAT No 121501 CX 0105 0105

Marc Montgomery · #7 25-07-11, 23:50

My Iltis had (has) a small wooden block tie-wrapped to the roll bar, with two little eyehooks screwed into it....perhaps to hold the "two" handsets?

well, I guess I'll have to ask Gen Milner about what he used...and "if" he remembers anything about comms setup..which- as I said given his responsiblities-is not assured.. As Scotty noted, even though he himself was using the stuff everyday, he wasn't payiing real attention to the setup,...which is fully understandable.

Wow..lotsa numbers Scotty...any idea what it all means?

Marc Montgomery · #8 29-07-11, 03:08

on photos of Iltis returned from Bosnia, those with the 6707 antenna still mounted (prior to removal before being auctioned) had these yellow and white warning stickers...Are these available to be had?

also the front antenna on this SFOR jeep while similar to a 6707, does not appear to be a 6707...am I wrong? if not, what would it be?

Marc Montgomery · #9 30-07-11, 16:58

as mentioned before- no interest in digital equip, operational or representational, as we all know they are not obtainable Am seeking a 524.

Scotty, do you recall ever seeing a speaker mounted on the dash- passenger side?

Stuart-re licence: do you have to be a member of RAC to obtain a licence? Once you have a licence do you have to maintain an RAC membership?

Marc Montgomery · #10 31-07-11, 00:59

thanks stuart, I do want functioning radios, and ability to use them. so do want the proprer licenCe.

If you want another doghouse.. lemme know, I only have a couple left...they are going slowly, but are going. a double unit is now boxed and heading out west soon.

BTW..still no thoughts on why a radio would be mounted normally in the doghouse and another mounted on top facing backward out the rear.?
Maybe a reserve unit had a *better idea* ????

cheers

chris vickery · #11 31-07-11, 02:47

Stuart, you commented on the Fed Gov giving up on Ham ops.
Truth of the matter is that my cell phone, my pc and numerous other electronic devices at my disposal have way more power and usefulness than a 40 year old military radio has.
You mentioned RAC and the amateurs as being self governing.
What is the penalty for those who chose to operate and not have appropriate licensing? I for one know of many who opt for this, call them pirate radio if you will. Basically common folk sick of government BS and interference.

chris vickery · #12 31-07-11, 16:12

Thanks for the explanation Stuart.
I do want to say that I do not endorse breaking the Law, the rules etc, I was simply curious as to what the reality actually is.
Interesting example you used; driving a tank or brengun carrier down a public road, (that is and has been hashed to death here on MLU before) but does show the grey areas that our hobby can fall into at times.

chris vickery · #13 31-07-11, 17:08

Stuart, I just picked up a range booster for my PRC25/77,. complete with the adapter box to fit an am-2060....

Now I just need to find a am-2060.

Marc Montgomery · #14 24-08-11, 00:40

Im wondering, it seems there might be different configurations for the C-2299, ie that connections are in different locations ...sometimes on bottom, sometimes on back.. this seems to be logical to adapt to different applications

But- could someone confirm this or refute this?

Marc Montgomery · #15 24-08-11, 02:16

well.. the photos you posted earlier show connections on each side and two male connections on the bottom.. I think Ive seen 2299 with the male connections out the back..I just want to confirm this... It does seem to make sense for different applications where the box would be mounted on its back against a wall (male connections out the bottom) and other applications where it would be mounted on the bottom with connections out the back.

Marc Montgomery · #16 18-09-11, 03:51

ooops...looks like I was right (again)..there is more than one configuration.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-2299-VRC-V...-/290602326866

Marc Montgomery · #17 18-09-11, 05:46

Stuart, Im not sure what you wanted me to see in the manual section (link) you posted, but it will come in handy as a reference.

I do still want to buy the radio CD you have avail.

My original question concerned configuration of the c-2299 (which i am looking for btw) i thought I had seen an alternative config, and theorized this made sense to cope with various applications. You said there was only one config, but the link I posted shows there are two, one with bottom mounting, one with side mounting.

Possibly the side mounting (your photos) is more common? and the bottom mounting may be a newer version?

Alex Blair (RIP) · #18 18-09-11, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

Stuart, Im not sure what you wanted me to see in the manual section (link) you posted, but it will come in handy as a reference.

I do still want to buy the radio CD you have avail.

My original question concerned configuration of the c-2299 (which i am looking for btw) i thought I had seen an alternative config, and theorized this made sense to cope with various applications. You said there was only one config, but the link I posted shows there are two, one with bottom mounting, one with side mounting.

Possibly the side mounting (your photos) is more common? and the bottom mounting may be a newer version?

""but the link I posted shows there are two, one with bottom mounting, one with side mounting."
Come on Marc..only two ways of mounting it...???
Mounting it doggie style is three....
Carry on..

Marc Montgomery · #19 18-09-11, 15:55

ebay seems to prevent the ability to copy these photos.. so please take a moment to look at the ebay photos link I posted which show a 2299 and you'll clearly see the obviously different configuration that I have been talking about.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-2299-VRC-V...-/290602326866

I wonder if this alternative configuration might not actually be more user friendly as the switches would be oriented vertically when *mounted* to the top of a doghouse,?

Although...perhaps having a higher profile in this vertical orientation it would be more vulnerable to damage than the "common" version mounted on its back?

*attached* (for Alex-teehee)

or, if this configuration of the 2299 is so unusual, any theories on why that would be?

Stuart, those plastic cable mounts look very neat. I presume these are common items easily found at Addisson or electronics stores?

Scott Bentley · #20 18-09-11, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

ebay seems to prevent the ability to copy these photos.. so please take a moment to look at the ebay photos link I posted which show a 2299 and you'll clearly see the obviously different configuration that I have been talking about.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-2299-VRC-V...-/290602326866

I wonder if this alternative configuration might not actually be more user friendly as the switches would be oriented vertically when *mounted* to the top of a doghouse,?

Although...perhaps having a higher profile in this vertical orientation it would be more vulnerable to damage than the "common" version mounted on its back?

*attached* (for Alex-teehee)

or, if this configuration of the 2299 is so unusual, any theories on why that would be?

Stuart, those plastic cable mounts look very neat. I presume these are common items easily found at Addisson or electronics stores?

That C2299 is identical to every one i've ever seen including the one I have....

Theres a pic of mine:

Scott Bentley · #21 18-09-11, 16:34

Marc,

I don't want to come across as a troll here, but you asked a question, and then got a very accurate answer including links to supporting publications from someone who owns and is knowledgeable about the kit, and yet you still go on to dispute it.

Pics from EBay:

Front Panel:

Bottom Panel:

Marc Montgomery · #22 19-09-11, 13:22

AHA and YIKES..now that Scotty points out this is the bottom of the unit and not the back!!!

because the first photo was cut off (unfortunately just at the point where one would see the connectors) and the second photo on ebay is slightly distorted, looking like the wider back of the unit... it gave me the impression the two male connectors are coming out the back --and not the bottom --in a different configuration...

mea culpa...and mea apologies ( pass the fork, Im having some humble pie for supper)

chris vickery · #23 22-01-12, 19:34

Check in the For Sale or Trade catagory for Iltis kit....

Marc Montgomery · #24 23-01-12, 13:43

Ah Stuart those are excellent photos..

The ones for the dash seem to finally resolve one set of mystery holes..ie..the very small bracket above the glove box.

. It does seem strange that the de-mil guys would rip that out on my jeep, but leave the larger bracket beside it entirely intact.
thanks for those photos Great!

UralBerger · #25 27-01-12, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

Well Marc,
Maple Leaf Up is The site for such details that MIL vehicle collectors find so interesting........ shades of paint, bolt patterns and what those holes really mean...........

This is the place for finding out such pressing questions.............

I liked the radio kit in the passenger side rear... I have one of the side fender mounts, but had not seen what went in those holes......... Now I know.......

I have some more pictures from past installations of radio gear, but will save those for another time.........

Cheers!
Stuart

It really does bug you, doesn't it Stuart? Hilarious! I like your subtle jabs though, I really do.

Marc Montgomery · #26 01-10-12, 15:53

IN looking at stewarts post #41 in this thread,- first picture showing an electronic unit (what exactly?) mounted on pass rear fender well. This probably answers another question I had. There are 4 holes drilled through fender approx 3in width x approx 15in apart . I had been curious what was mounted there..I presume that unit was it.

I also have two of the newer style mounting plates shown in post # 55. There is the plate itself and then two solid heavy (way overbuilt) bars to fit in the wide slots. with cutout slots for the bolts to fit through.

BTW still have a couple doghouses I could sell, and still looking for a fully functional RT524.

Marc Montgomery · #27 03-10-12, 01:03

Thanks for the heads up Stewart.. its even not tooooo far.. but alas price wise it is far out of my range.. I may have to go forever without at that rate. and picture shown is not that of the actual unit.

of course I have a MkII 19 set to trade....

Did you ever build the amp section for the PRC 25?