Sherman Start Up

[Nigel Watson]

Can anyone help me with the Sherman start up procedure. A pal of mine has acquired a runner and has to move it onto his transporter so wants to know the starting procedure.

Thanks
Nigel

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Nigel
Can anyone help me with the Sherman start up procedure.

Nigel,

Depends on which type of engine it has, assume it could be a radial?

Richard

[Nigel Watson]

Have no idea Richard, for them all will do though just in case!!!

Nigel

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

There is a diference, Nigel... the radial needs 'kid gloves'. Most of the surviving Shermans today are actually Canadian-built Grizzleys, which are the equivalent of the U.S. M4A1. Find out what it is. It DOES make a difference.

Cheers,

Geoff

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Nigel
Can anyone help me with the Sherman start up procedure. A pal of mine has acquired a runner and has to move it onto his transporter so wants to know the starting procedure.

Thanks
Nigel

Nige
If it is the radial I can give you the start up proceedure for the ram radial which is the same engine..
It is not to be triffled with.At rest,oil collects in the bottom cylinders of the radial,so it is not a proceedure where you jump in and start cranking.
It has to be turned over by hand a zillion times to clear the oil of else if it fires with out clearing the oil you could be wearing a fancy air cooled cylinder mustache..
Let me know..
I'll scan and send.

[Nigel Watson]

Here is the brute! Tell me all radial, cross ply or standard 10!



Fanks

Nigel

[tankbarrell]

Its an M4A1(76) and therefore should have the radial engine. As Alex stated, it is necessary to crank the engine over by hand using the handle supplied. This should be stowed on the lh sponson. 50 turns is normally sufficient, a zillion is a bit excessive!
Assuming the oil and fuel levels are ok and the fuel is turned on it is then a matter of:-
Clutch down
In nuetral
magnetos on
squeeze the starter and booster switches (no booster fitted with Bosch magnetos)
Dont be afraid to pump the throttle while cranking, the radial has a supercharger and this tends to mash up any excess fuel before it reaches the cylinders. I've never flooded one yet, though if you overdo it, you might be faced with a fire........ stand by with an extinguisher just in case.
Good luck to your mate, looks a nice buy.

[gordon]

... but I do remember hearing that it was (common) practice to pull the spark plugs out of the downward-facing cylinders while at rest so any oil just poured right out on the ground. In the morning just put the plugs in, fire up, and go.

So, you radial people, is this true or just gossip?

Gordon

[tankbarrell]

Its a heck of a lot easier to just handcrank the engine 50 times then it is to go through all that with the sparkplugs. The cylinders dont fill up with oil, its just seepage. In the event of hydraulic lock, the clutch in the starter motor slips and then you would have to remove the plugs as you describe.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by tankbarrell
Its a heck of a lot easier to just handcrank the engine 50 times then it is to go through all that with the sparkplugs. The cylinders dont fill up with oil, its just seepage. In the event of hydraulic lock, the clutch in the starter motor slips and then you would have to remove the plugs as you describe.

Some more stuff.........
1..Open the engine bay up to vent fumes..
2..Warm up engine comp.and oil tank ..(Important to remove condensate and heat up oilline to engine)
3..ignition..OFF..
4..Clutch...In..place transmission in neutral..
5..Turn over engine 45-50 times with hand crank..(If hydrostatic locked,remove spark plugs and drain cyls..replace and start over..)
6..With starter switch "On" crank over engine..no longer than 30 seconds..Watch for oil pressure rise on oil gage...while cranking..Should be 2-20psi ...depends on oil temperature,that is why you pre heat it..if no oil pressure try 30 seconds more..still no oil pressure..ckeck for air lock or loss of oil pump prime..reprime oil lines and pump.. and retry ..oil pressure must be established before fuel cocks are turned on..make sure oil is warm enough..the warmer the better..
7..Got oil preessure..??
Ok..open the fuel supply valves.
8..hold accelerator down slightly..about 1/10th open..
hold this position till engine starts to fire..
9..prime with hand primer...max.4 strokes..
10..Release clutch and engage starter..start counting1001..1002..put ignition switch.to the "Both" position...
11..Press the booster switch to the "on" position and hold...
DO NOT PUMP TH ACCELERATOR>>!
Do not push the start and booster at the same time..
Do not push the booster switch first..youll damage the booster coil..only hold on the boster coil for a short time..a coupple of seconds..
Once engine starts,release starter and booster switches and set throttle at 800RMP ..run engine for five minutes checking amperage...voltage...oil pressure(40-50 psi)..
12...Set throttle to 1000rpm for further 5 minutes..bringing oil press up to 60-80 psi...your engine oil temperature is absolutely critical to achieve these pressures so idle longer if oil pressure is low or unstable..
13..warmed up now..???
Set throttle at 2000 rpm,check oil amps and volts...check accelerator pedal at this point for smoth reving operation...
At this point check left and right magnetos by swithing them off one at a time momentaraliy..at 2000 rpm rpm should only drop slightly...as each is shut off..large loss of rpm would indicate firing problems with that circuit..
Engine oil pressure should be 50-80 psi and temperature should be 80-120F before moving off..
Failure to properly warm up engine and putting under load too soon will warp your air cooled engine..youll pay..big toime..
14..Set throttle to desired RPM and move off..
STOP>>>>

Bring back engine throttle to 800 RPM..
alow engine to cool down to previouse oil temperatures ..about 15 minutes..or you'll warp it..same as moving off too cold..dont shut engine down too hot..
Engine..cool..??
Press fuel cutoff solenoid and hold down untill engine stops firing
DO NOT TURN OFF IGNITION SWITCH UNTILL ENGINE
STOPS FIRING>>!!
Turn off battery and fuel valves..
Print this out and use it for a guide..Happy tanking..

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by tankbarrell
Its an M4A1(76) and therefore should have the radial engine. As Alex stated, it is necessary to crank the engine over by hand using the handle supplied. This should be stowed on the lh sponson. 50 turns is normally sufficient, a zillion is a bit excessive!
Assuming the oil and fuel levels are ok and the fuel is turned on it is then a matter of:-
Clutch down
In nuetral
magnetos on
squeeze the starter and booster switches (no booster fitted with Bosch magnetos)
Dont be afraid to pump the throttle while cranking, the radial has a supercharger and this tends to mash up any excess fuel before it reaches the cylinders. I've never flooded one yet, though if you overdo it, you might be faced with a fire........ stand by with an extinguisher just in case.
Good luck to your mate, looks a nice buy.

Hi TB..
I like your way better than mine...
But I thought I would enlighten my favourite, friendly Oatmeal Savage so he would not turn himself into a crispy critter...
And give him the necessary info on pressures and temperature and the "WHY.." it is done the way it is,.,..
He is addicted to Ford Flatheads and we are trying to ease him off with a radial...

[Keith Webb]

I'll be behind a radial engine this Sunday, a 550hp Pratt & Whitney nine cylinders radial engine, and possibly also the 1400 horses of a T28 Trojan. Alongside will be a P51 Mustang for filming purposes.
I've watched the startup procedure - they 'hydraulicking' is a major concern with aircraft radials too, with the next one being oil supply.
Some owners have made pre-oilers for their engines where oil is pumped through an external device which is often fitted with a heater to get the temp up.
Once strapped into the aircraft a long time is spent getting the oil up to temperature before takeoff.
The sound of a Pratt & Whitney radial if you haven't heard it close up is wonderful, something like an unruly unmuffled flathead V8, but even better.
The Trojan has ejector exhausts and sounds much harsher.
We're in the process of making an audio CD of all this and more which wee hope to release in the near future if anyone is interested.
It is professionally recorded, away from the annoying public address systems of airshows too.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
We're in the process of making an audio CD of all this and more which wee hope to release in the near future if anyone is interested.
It is professionally recorded, away from the annoying public address systems of airshows too.

Better put my name down for a copy, please, Keith! This will be great to play in the car stopped at traffic lights

Originally posted by tankbarrell
Its an M4A1(76) and therefore should have the radial engine.

Is this the same R-975 radial engine that's fitted to Stuart tanks? I think Grants had them, too, didn't they?

[Keith Webb]

Tony, it will also be a good thing to put on at volume 110% in case your wife has a Tupperware party...

Another good time to listen is when Australian Idol is on the TV.

Just tell the girls it will help them get in touch with their masculine side.

[herr-pear]

And I'd like one also, please. For the hidden speaker system on my electric wheelchair!

[tankbarrell]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Is this the same R-975 radial engine that's fitted to Stuart tanks? I think Grants had them, too, didn't they?

The Shermans had the R975, originally the C-1, superceded by the C-4. They were both built as tank engines though using some aircraft parts. The C-4 was an improved model with many changes.
The M3 Lee/Grants had the R975 EC2 which was an aircraft engine modified to fit in tanks.
The M3 Stuarts had a seven cylinder Continental W-670 of 250 hp. This is essentially a Boeing PT17 engine, again modified for tank use.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by tankbarrell
The Shermans had the R975, originally the C-1, superceded by the C-4. They were both built as tank engines though using some aircraft parts. The C-4 was an improved model with many changes.
The M3 Lee/Grants had the R975 EC2 which was an aircraft engine modified to fit in tanks.
The M3 Stuarts had a seven cylinder Continental W-670 of 250 hp. This is essentially a Boeing PT17 engine, again modified for tank use.

Hi Mr. Tankbarrell..
You obviously know your radials and tanks..The startup proceedure I wrote out was for the Ram tank which also has the R975 EC2....also super charged...
I believe that the start up proccedure would be similar to the other models.......
Hopefully between the lot of us we can help out so Nigel won't cook his kilt...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
The sound of a Pratt & Whitney radial if you haven't heard it close up is wonderful, something like an unruly unmuffled flathead V8, but even better.

Yummy - 16 litres of supercharged radial engine with all 9 holes firing without a muffler in sight.....
go on, click on the picture!

Source: http://www.militaryexport.co.uk/

Keith, would be nice to include Adrian's Multibank recording - I'll buy a copy off you.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Nigel
Here is the brute! Tell me all radial, cross ply or standard 10!

M4A1(76)W with Continental R975 radial engine, as others have pointed out.

In Suid-Afrika, I presume? Any chance of loading it in your next container?

H.

[Stefan Siverud]

I'd be very interested in that CD - I love sounds, a heavy engine from WW2 and full bass - it doesn't get better!

At least not when you're from Sweden and the only tank you'll see are the ones being towed away to the scrapheap - at best

[Bill Mulholland]

I turned the speakers up and scared the bejeezus out of Mrs and the cat!!! I can get a taste of the real thing occasionally when they fire up one of the Grumman Avengers at the local airport, and take them for a "road- test" right over my house.We have 6 still flying here as water bombers, but this will be their last year. They are being replaced by some hi-tech'Sky Truck" thing. Nothing sounds like a radial on full power except maybe a Leopard pack doing a ground run-up.
Cheers, Bill

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Hi Mr. Tankbarrell..
You obviously know your radials and tanks..

Might I say, knowing Mr Tankbarrell personally, he does know his tanks and has a knack for taking a rusty, shot up piece of incomplete brown shite from a firing range and rendering it into an as-new tank complete with every widget and looking like it just came out of stores.

Great stuff.

R.

[tankbarrell]

Originally posted by FV623
Might I say, knowing Mr Tankbarrell personally, he does know his tanks and has a knack for taking a rusty, shot up piece of incomplete brown shite from a firing range and rendering it into an as-new tank complete with every widget and looking like it just came out of stores.

Great stuff.

R.

Richard, thankyou for your kind words, mustn't let my head get too big though, might not fit through the hatch......

Originally posted by tankbarrell
Richard, thankyou for your kind words, mustn't let my head get too big though, might not fit through the hatch......

Ah, not only but also, I might add Mr Tankbarrell is adequately proportioned to cajole the lumpy bits of recalcitrant tank together, as one has to; shall we say along the lines of a well-built McSpool?

R.

[Tony Smith]

Radials, Multibanks, what about Inlines like this lovely Allison mounted on a trailer?
I know the Centurion was fitted with the RR Meteor engine which was developed from the Merlin, but why wasn't there more use made of Inline Aero engines for tank powerplants?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
why wasn't there more use made of Inline Aero engines for tank powerplants?

Tony,
The American designed Liberty V12 dating back to WW1 was adapted for tanks by Nuffield Mechanisations at the start of WW2. It powered the Cruiser A13, Crusader, Centaur and Cavalier. The Russians also adapted a V12 aero engine for their tanks.

Richard

[Rod Diery]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
I'll be behind a radial engine this Sunday, a 550hp Pratt & Whitney nine cylinders radial engine, and possibly also the 1400 horses of a T28 Trojan. Alongside will be a P51 Mustang for filming purposes.

mutter mutter mutter ..........lucky bastard!!!!!!!!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by tankbarrell
The M3 Lee/Grants had the R975 EC2 which was an aircraft engine modified to fit in tanks.

See General Grant tank – Starting Procedure as featured in John Owen Smith's book All Tanked Up about The Canadians in Headley during Wartime - a highly worthwile read.

H.

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
The Russians also adapted a V12 aero engine for their tanks.

That they did and continued to use it for years, the V-2-34 engine is based on the V12 Hispano-Suiza aero diesel and here's the oddity, there is a stroke difference of 6.7mm between the two banks of six cylinders.

The left bank has 180mm and the right 186.7mm with respectively 14:1 and 15:1 CRs. There is a good mechanical/geometrical reason for this, especially with the aero heritage and I was sent off on a quest to find out why someone would make such an apparently unbalanced engine. Interesting it was, anyone take a guess why?

R.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by FV623
Interesting it was, anyone take a guess why?

I would not dare - but please don't keep us in suspense any longer!

H.