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  #1  
Old 10-03-09, 08:10
Max Hedges's Avatar
Max Hedges Max Hedges is offline
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Default David Hayward how is your memory

mine not good

David
We are taking the C30 cab 11 we have to Corowa and would like to type up some of its history.
the british number is still there after all these years 4449550
and was contracr number 2003
is there any other info you have I could add
Max
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  #2  
Old 10-03-09, 11:57
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Demand S/M 2003 was placed around 25th June 1940..I seem to recall and was initially for 1,500 30-cwt. Fords for Bombay and 1,500 Chevrolets for England. By 28th August this had changed and 2003 became 1,200 30-cwt. Fords for Egypt and 300 for Mombasa, with 1,500 Chevrolets for England. The English-assembled Chevrolet C30 lorries were all 1941 Models. Census Numbers were L 4448758 to 4450257. They were assembled probably by Lep Transport Ltd in Chiswick, London W.4 although it si possible that some were assembled by General Motors Ltd at Cuerden Mill, Bamber Bridge, near Preston, Lancashire. There is a photo of in the Imperial War Museum, photo KID 2505.

Because of the Mid-East policies under Churchill, the AIF and NZEF in England were shipped out to Egypt in December 1940 I think, and vehicles followed, including ex-Canadian orders assembled here. Vehicles were also shipped out from English-assembled stocks which joined those shipped direct to Alexandria and assembled there. Loans of vehicles were then made to the AIF, NZEF and Indian Army..and I also query SADF? Those vehicles issued to the AIF and NZEF were then sold subsequently to the respective Dominion Governments and carried their Census Numbers.

Subsequently the survivors were shipped back to Australia and New Zealand. Unless Shane Lovell has anything to add, from the books that he photos, I cannot say much more for the moment.
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Old 10-03-09, 12:05
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thanks for that David
was S/M 2003 the second order for cmps to be shiped to England from Canada
Max
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  #4  
Old 10-03-09, 13:21
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Quote:
Years of adherence to War Office dicta proved worthwhile when a British Colonel Butler of the “British Mission”, otherwise referred to as the “representative of the War Office”, though officially attached to the British Supply Board in Canada, Ottawa, went to see Colonel N.O. Carr, the Director of Mechanization and Artillery on 27th June 1940 and advised him that the British Mission were definitely placing an order in Canada for no less than 7,000 15-cwt. 4 x 2, 3,000 30-cwt. 4 x 4 and 10,000 3-Ton trucks. The first two orders were to be in accordance with [War] Departmental specifications and the latter to the same specification but with standard 10.50 x 16 tyres instead of Run-Flat or “RF” type. Butler stated that the Mission would like to have priority on production over the then current orders for the Canadian 3rd Division and ancillary troops! Carr said that he had no power to give such a decision, but in his opinion as both countries were fighting an Empire war the British order should be merged with the Canadians’ and divided between G.M. and Ford to take full advantage of industrial capacity; consequently a decision should be made as soon as possible as to who was to receive priority of delivery. He therefore suggested that General Macrae contact the Master General of the Ordnance on the subject. Carr was concerned that this problem together with the aforementioned indecision with respect to the movements of the 2nd Division and the ancillary troops to complete the Corps caused considerable embarrassment in the D.M.A.’s department. ...Methods of packing, priority of manufacture and delivery, arrangements for shipping involving reservation of cargo space were all involved. Carr thought that the mechanical transport already delivered for the 2nd Division had an important bearing as it might be utilised to satisfy in part English {sic.} requirements. Carr had also been informed by G.M. of Canada that they had received an inquiry from Australia for 1,900 4 x 4 “National Defence specification” and was asked what reply G.M. should give. He claimed he was at a loss to give any constructive advice. This approach plus the British order emphasised the need to “get into maximum production as soon as possible and maintain peak production until the tap is turned off”

Quote:
! In a letter of 31st July 1940 from Carr to the Department of Munitions and Supply “the British” had made a further enquiry regarding the possible production of 39,200 additional vehicles! Consequently Carr queried as to whether the tooling contemplated for 200 vehicles per day was sufficient and the motor industry should review the situation to see whether bottlenecks at that production rate could be relieved with advantage, though they might not be able to do so until tooling for 100 units/day had advanced beyond the state at that time. Carr thought that the aim was 100 units/day but under pressure 125 could be achieved. However, spare parts demand for large orders shortly beforehand was such that the 100 units/day completed vehicles could only be maintained if the outside limit of 125 sets of components could also be maintained As this would preclude elasticity or buffer in production, he suggested that the companies decide whether they could create some reserve capacity greater than then contemplated


Quote:
Before the increase had been mooted, Colonel Butler had had a discussion with a Mr. C.E. Doheney, Mechanical Transport Section, of the Department of Munitions and Supply on 12 July, with presumably H.J. Stevenson of the D.M.A.’s department in attendance. 7,000 4 x 2 15-cwt. trucks and 3,000 4 x 4 30-cwt. 4 x 4 trucks had been ordered, equipped with run flat tyres. All trucks were to be provided with equipment as listed, and service and instructions books, etc. were to be supplied by each Company in addition. The next day Stevenson wrote to each Company giving them advance information on the British orders which were subject to confirmation by the D.M.S. : this afforded them little time to prepare for this addition to Canadian demands! However, the order which was ostensibly for U.K. delivery was changed days later so that just 12,000 vehicles were to be shipped to the U.K., with 1,970 to Egypt [probably Alexandria], and the balance to be delivered to India.

Quote:
Ford of Canada started production of their British orders on 26th August, and G.M. of Canada on 3rd September [1940], and comprised 21,000 units and of those, initially 12,000 were to be delivered to the U.K. and 1,970for Egypt, though this rapidly changed. One of the first shipments consisted of 70 15-cwt. Chevrolets [C.15] and 25 Ford 3-Ton trucks, which was a tiny portion of the overall demand. These first British orders had been booked as 150,000 cu. ft. of space on the S.S. St Malo, loading at Halifax, Nova Scotia for the U.K. on 6-8 September 1940 , and then 50,000 cu. ft. had been booked on the S.S. Andalusian, loading St. John, New Brunswick, September 14-17
Quote:
To illustrate the urgency of the demand for Canadian trucks, reference is made to the M. of S. Demands (contracts): Supply/Mechanical [abbreviated “S.M.”or “S/M”] 2002 to 2006 which were placed in June 1940 in Ottawa. S/M. 2002 was intended to cover 3,500 15-cwt. Fords for Bombay, and the same number of Chevrolets for England ; S/M 2003 1,500 30-cwt. Fords for Bombay and 1,500 Chevrolets for England ; S/M 2004 was for 3-Tonners, 5,742 Ford trucks, 66 Ford Stores, 86 Wreckers and 86 Machinery for England , and S/M 2005 [Bombay] and 2006 [England] covered 4,787 Chevrolet trucks split 3,829 for Bombay and 958 for England, with 57 Stores, Wreckers and Machinery for Bombay and 14 of each for England. The bodies and chassis were to be boxed separately and marked accordingly after the case number: one body and one chassis were meant to be shipped together to form one unit. By 28th August, this had all changed: S/M 2002 required 3,000 Ford 15-cwt. for Egypt , 500 for Mombasa, and 3,500 Chevrolets for England; 2003 became 1,200 30-cwt. Fords for Egypt and 300 for Mombasa, with 1,500 Chevrolets for England; 2004 was for 5,742 3-Ton Ford trucks plus 86 of each of Stores, Wreckers and Machinery , and finally 2005 became 4,787 Chevrolet 3-Ton trucks split 3,150 for Egypt, 670 for Mombasa and 967 for England, with 71 Stores, Wreckers and Machinery split 50 for Egypt, 10 for Mombasa and 11 for England in each case. The War Department Census shows that S/M 2006 was issued for 4 x 2 G.S. [General Service] trucks, totalling 193 units. The Census shows that S/M 2002 totalled 3,211 Chevrolet units registered and 1,500 Chevrolets under S/M 2003. Photographic evidence shows that the S/M 2002 trucks had 2B1 all-steel welded bodies, and were crated at least for Egypt using the Alpha pack method, or SUP-1Z1 where the case was opened up and the wheels and steering wheel could be fitted so the truck could be rolled away. The cab was split at waist level with the top of the cab in the body, with the wheels
I have a list somewhere of all the early S/M Demands, by make..it included GMC and other ex-French diversions until around 2018 when it consisted of new orders. I have yet to find any evidence of any S/M 2001...I wonder if it ever existed? Or it might have been pencilled-in and cancelled.


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  #5  
Old 10-03-09, 23:11
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Default C30

David a brief histry of the C30

order for contract 2003 was made June 1940 to suply 1500 chev 30 cwt trucks to England
production started in September 1940 by GM
the order arrived in England to be reasembled late 1940
this truck was sent to North Africa with the British army
latter transfered to the Australian army
when the Australians returned to Australia they brought their trucks back with them
this C30 still has the numbers 30565 painted on the mud guards which I believe were stenceled on when the truck left for Australia

David thanks again
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  #6  
Old 10-03-09, 23:36
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Default Assembly

As to when assembly was undertaken, I would suggest 'during December 1940' was the absolute earliest, with 'during and from January 1941' more likely, spreading to May 1941. Shipment would then have been undertaken in say spring 1941. Don't forget that these huge supplies coincided with the Southampton CMD having been bombed, thus requiring temporary alternative assembly facilities for the Canadian 1st and especially 2nd Division vehicles. In many respects I can see that, on reflection, shipping British-order vehicles straight off to Alexandria and perhaps even West Africa was an answer to a problem of what to do with them in the light of the German invasion apparently having been postponed.

As you say, when the AIF returned to Australia, vehicles had been purchased by payments made through the High Commission in London. It made complete sense all round to ship them via Suez for further service. Ultimately survivors wre then demobbed.


Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 11-03-09 at 09:35.
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  #7  
Old 11-03-09, 03:01
Col Tigwell Col Tigwell is offline
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That has got to be worth at least two sponge cakes Max, though David better come down and eat them here before they get stale.

When I joined the air force in 1957,CMP abounded mainly as water atnkers and aircraft refuelers.

If we had known the interest and values they would bring later, you and I should have bought the lot.

Of course it is always nice to be wise in hindsight.

Regards

Col
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  #8  
Old 11-03-09, 09:41
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Default Post-war

CT, it does seem that very few relativeloy CMPs were retained by the Ministry of Supply for the post-war British forces but there is ample photographic evidence that demobbed CMPs were widely used into the 1960s by all manner of users. But so many it seems had been reconfigured by the post-war rebuilders.

As an off[-topic subject, an English guy who did some work for us on our house around 1987 swore that he served in Vietnam, It seems that he and his mate were in the nUS and as a result of a bet he volunteered for the US Army, ending up as a helicopter pilot. I gather that there were very few British-born servicemen that served but that included men who had emigrated to Australia.
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  #9  
Old 11-03-09, 22:28
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When we picked the C30 up it was fitted with front axle from another two wheel drive truck which was done at times to save fuel by reducing the weight of the vehicle. We have fitted a front diff from another chev, but I doubt if we will ever find a cab 11 diff.

Col we should buy Dave one of those Aussie survival packs for his long journey to Yass to eat the sponge cakes. Mind you fresh sponge cakes don't last long with me around here, so he'd have to be quick.

Max
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