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  #1  
Old 22-11-20, 16:53
serge serge is offline
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Default Questions on a ford engine

HELLO

I am remounting a FORD MERCURY V8 flat head engine which was on my CANADIAN FORD F60L (one of the latest version 1945). The engine was dismounted some 30 years ago and I don't remember the purpose of some item. On the technical manual I had found no information about these subjects.

My first question is about the vertical part connected at the base of an additionnal part below the carburator. These part leads the depression to the wiper engines but instead to be a single pipe it is an directionnal valve (actually out of order). On its body we can read the following informations with an arrow in the direction of the wiper engine.


DONALDSON CRANKCASE VENTILATOR
TAKE APART EVERY 250 HOURS
INSTALL ARROW (--------> )

The arrow has the direction of the wiper motor.

These informations mean that it should be an non-return valve but why*?

The second question is about a little pipe starting from the valve cover at the same place that the copper pipe leading in front of engine and used for the crankshaft ventilation.
In a time I believe that this pipe should be connected to the ignitor but these last owns no hole.

I join some pics of the engine with some interressing informations. The carburator was made by FORD and also the capacitor connected to the ignitor. The engine was rebuild in GREAT BRITAIN by REME workshop on the 15/11/51.

Best regards
Attached Thumbnails
UNDETEMINED PIPE.jpg   NON RETURN VALVE2.jpg   NON RETURN VALVE1.jpg   ENGINE.jpg   PLAQUE_IDENT2.jpg  

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  #2  
Old 22-11-20, 16:55
serge serge is offline
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Default Bad read

Hello

Having watch the identification plate of the engine , I see that the engine has been rebuild in RCEME and not in REME so my truck was in CANADA in 1951?
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  #3  
Old 22-11-20, 18:16
rob love rob love is online now
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Default

214 Base Workshop was in Vancouver, BC (Canada). It does not mean that your vehicle was there, just the engine. Unless your engine is matched to the data plate on the dash, it is just as likely that an engine that had been rebuilt in the Vancouver Workshop found it's way to your vehicle.
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  #4  
Old 22-11-20, 22:21
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Ford Flathead V8- PCV components and vacuum brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by serge View Post
HELLO

I am remounting a FORD MERCURY V8 flat head engine which was on my CANADIAN FORD F60L (one of the latest version 1945). The engine was dismounted some 30 years ago and I don't remember the purpose of some item. On the technical manual I had found no information about these subjects.

My first question is about the vertical part connected at the base of an additionnal part below the carburator. These part leads the depression to the wiper engines but instead to be a single pipe it is an directionnal valve (actually out of order). On its body we can read the following informations with an arrow in the direction of the wiper engine.


DONALDSON CRANKCASE VENTILATOR
TAKE APART EVERY 250 HOURS
INSTALL ARROW (--------> )

The arrow has the direction of the wiper motor.

These informations mean that it should be an non-return valve but why*?

The second question is about a little pipe starting from the valve cover at the same place that the copper pipe leading in front of engine and used for the crankshaft ventilation.
In a time I believe that this pipe should be connected to the ignitor but these last owns no hole.

I join some pics of the engine with some interressing informations. The carburator was made by FORD and also the capacitor connected to the ignitor. The engine was rebuild in GREAT BRITAIN by REME workshop on the 15/11/51.

Best regards
Hello Serge,

The items you are referring to are part of the PCV system for these engines. The part with the two large holes is a spacer than goes under the carburettor and allows crankcase fumes to be drawn into the intake manifold. The part with the arrow is the PCV valve which controls when the fumes are drawn into the manifold based on the vacuum in the manifold. See attached photo.
A small oil-bath air filter is attached to the fuel pump stand to filter the air pulled into the crankcase by the manifold vacuum through the PCV valve.

The other thin tube is used to supply a vacuum to the distributor to activate the vacuum brake on the distributor advance. It attaches to the intake manifold by a "banjo" at the fitting called a vacuum breaker which also supplies vacuum to the wipers.

Just flip the spacer over and it should connect up correctly to the front of the manifold and remove the copper tube to the engine front cover. the wiper hose should attach where you have the copper tube attached at the manifold (vacuum breaker). If no vacuum wipers are fitted that hole needs to be plugged.
You may have to repair the thin tube from the engine front cover to the manifold. I cannot tell from the photo if it is intact.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_3443A.JPG   IMG_4054A.JPG  
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Last edited by Jacques Reed; 22-11-20 at 22:45. Reason: Added installation tips
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  #5  
Old 23-11-20, 07:04
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Dave Newcomb Dave Newcomb is offline
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Default V8 Fords

Do I see a spark lead for #5 crossing over the eng.? the firing order leads are usually cross routed at the dist. Early ford V8 fellows hang out at Fordbarn.com and are always ready to answer/solve problems at the Form site there. Newc
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  #6  
Old 23-11-20, 08:18
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Newcomb View Post
Do I see a spark lead for #5 crossing over the eng.? the firing order leads are usually cross routed at the dist. Early ford V8 fellows hang out at Fordbarn.com and are always ready to answer/solve problems at the Form site there. Newc
Hi Dave,

Perhaps they are, but I copied a NOS set of leads inside a NOS conduit exactly, even down to the bitumen impregnated sleeve that crosses over the engine as a chafing protector. I am also on Ford Barn but a very infrequent visitor. I got good info on truck transmission colour there and a couple other queries.

Added this page from the F15 Driver's Handbook showing how No. 3 and No. 5 spark plug leads cross over the intake manifold which is what I have done with mine.

Cheers
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Last edited by Jacques Reed; 23-11-20 at 22:25.
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  #7  
Old 23-11-20, 21:37
serge serge is offline
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Hello Jacques

I thank you for the accuracy responses to my questions. Nevertheless I have a last question*: on the other side of the banjo ( there is a little pipe integrated to this connection) and I think that an other pipe should be connectetd but where it go*? see right top of your second pic.

Best regards Serge
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  #8  
Old 23-11-20, 22:07
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Ford CMP- Vacuum line to windscreen wipers

Hello Serge,

That little tube is on the vacuum breaker and the rubber hose to the vacuum operated windscreen wipers attaches to it there.

Often vacuum wipers have been replaced with electric wipers so that little tube needs to be plugged, otherwise the vacuum pressure in the system will not be developed and the PCV valve and spark advance brake on the distributor will not function properly.

I have seen a few engines with that tube crushed shut where vacuum wipers were no longer fitted. Best to just plug it in case original wipers are ever fitted.

Cheers,
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Last edited by Jacques Reed; 23-11-20 at 22:33.
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  #9  
Old 24-11-20, 03:49
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Default lead crossover

Thanks- Never seen that in civilian vehicles. Newc
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  #10  
Old 24-11-20, 06:03
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Ford flatheads- Civilian vs military engines

Hi Dave,

Yes, I have been surprised a few times with the differences between civilian and military Ford flathead V8's. The fact that Ford shifted V8 engine production to Canada in WW2 adds a further layer for differences. I remember the interest shown on the Ford Barn when I posted info on the PCV system.

Different suppliers of oil conditioners (filters) between US and Canadian engines is just one example, and even different suppliers for Canadian engines. I never found a filter element from any of the US antique Ford suppliers that fit my Canadian oil cannister. My own homework found what fits however.

Recently I noticed that the carburettor air filter is unique to the CMP vehicles also. The standard Ford car air filter is substantially smaller than the CMP "honeypot" as some people call it.

All the best,
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Last edited by Jacques Reed; 24-11-20 at 23:07. Reason: Added air filter info
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  #11  
Old 25-11-20, 06:25
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Dave, the Crab Dizzy requires that two HT leads cross over, while the pre 42 distributor does as you say.
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  #12  
Old 26-11-20, 03:50
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Dave Newcomb Dave Newcomb is offline
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Default Found correct Cmp Ford engine 41-42

Hi; Just a story here; My ' 42 Ford F60S has a late '49 engine, well I have discovered the correct '41-42 engine in my '48 114X Mercury cpe! Apparently a surplus replacement at some time! some day big job there. Dave
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  #13  
Old 07-12-20, 07:36
serge serge is offline
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Hi JACQUES

I would take advantage of your good kowledge about engine to ask you an other question please.
I would like to inquiry about the link between the oil filter canister and the engine. At the rear (left side) of the engine we found two parts*: one is an electrical sensor (which aim is to indiquate the value of oil pressure when the engine is running) and the second is an outlet which is used to link a pipe to the upper inlet of the oil canister. (It's the ouput of the oil pump).

At the bottom of the oil canister there is an other outlet which should be used to return the oil to the engine with a second pipe and my problem is that there is no inlet for these pipe on the engine.

Having read some forum about these subject, I learned that these inlet should be below the exhaust pipe. I have clean out of paint the below of the engine but I have found no entry for the return of oil.

Please did you have an explanation about the behaviour.

Best regards Serge

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  #14  
Old 07-12-20, 21:29
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
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Default return line

into the oil pan, not the block.
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  #15  
Old 07-12-20, 23:12
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Ford Sidevalve V8 Oil Conditioner (Filter)- return line

Hi Serge,

As Harry pointed out the return line from the filter goes straight back into the oil pan.

There is an SAE inverted flare elbow at the forward end of the pan where the return line attaches. See photo.

Just looking at your photo it seems you have used copper tubing to the filter.
May I suggest you use steel Bundy tubing instead for two reasons:

Copper tubing can work harden and get brittle with vibration as can occur on any machinery part. If it fractures, there could be a catastrophic loss of oil pressure.

The other reason is that the fittings are designed for SAE inverted (double) flares. These are the type of flares required wherever there is liquid under pressure inside the tubes to ensure a leakproof seal. Steel lines with double flares are used throughout the braking system for this reason. Despite the appearance, all my tubing on the truck is steel Bundy tubing. Bundy tubing has a copper patina caused by the way it is made.

If you do not have the fitting on your oil pan, or a place for it, you may have a civilian car engine pan which did not usually have filters fitted.

If so, you may have to add a fitting or a doubler plate to the pan and drill and tap it for a 90 degree elbow.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers,
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  #16  
Old 08-12-20, 11:34
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Jacques, some of them returned oil to the oil filler housing (fuel pump mounted to it) I don't think it lasted long. Probably too much oil blown out when there was blow by.
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  #17  
Old 08-12-20, 13:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Reed View Post
If you do not have the fitting on your oil pan, or a place for it, .........

You may have to add a fitting or a doubler plate to the pan and drill and tap it for a 90 degree elbow.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers,
Post-war engines had the Oil Return feed through a modified Dipstick boss. This type of boss is available as a new part to replace the older boss from retailers such as Mac's or Van Pelt Sales (I got the pic from their site). Saves having to drill and tap holes in an otherwise perfectly good pan.
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  #18  
Old 08-12-20, 22:14
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Smith View Post
Post-war engines had the Oil Return feed through a modified Dipstick boss. This type of boss is available as a new part to replace the older boss from retailers such as Mac's or Van Pelt Sales (I got the pic from their site). Saves having to drill and tap holes in an otherwise perfectly good pan.
Hi Lynn and Tony,

Didn't know they existed but that is a great item and a lot easier solution for Serge if required. Especially useful to a guy like me who hates extra holes where they never existed on a vehicle. I usually spend time filling in those type holes.

Cheers,
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  #19  
Old 21-12-20, 23:43
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Ford Sidevalve V8 Oil Conditioner (Filter)- return line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Eades View Post
Jacques, some of them returned oil to the oil filler housing (fuel pump mounted to it) I don't think it lasted long. Probably too much oil blown out when there was blow by.
Hi Lynn,

Spotted this on Gumtree Australia. Looks like the one you mentioned.

Cheers and a Merry Christmas from across the Ditch.
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  #20  
Old 22-12-20, 07:11
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Yes Jacques, that would be it. Happy Christmas to you too. Stay safe and covid free.
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