Canada's LSVW fleet grounded

[Jon Skagfeld]

Yes, you heard it here first. Canada's Light Support Vehicle Wheeled fleet is grounded as of today.

The LSVW brakes, failing at a high rate, have caused DND to issue this nation-wide grounding.

The issue was first detected at an Ontario military training centre, then spread to Ottawa where the edict was issued.

Background: Western Star, the manufacturer of the LSVW, is out of business. The after market manufacturer of master cylinders has had design failure issues which have resulted in newly replaced units failing within a very short time.

This writer has had empirical evidence...two vehicles having brake failure in two days.

[Scott Bentley]

How this POS vehicle that wouldn't reliably start below -10 when new ever got procured is still beyond me. Can we expect to see a new CANLANDGEN in the next few days detailing a repair procedure involving a Can of Gas, a Zippo and a Bulldozer?

Thanks for the heads up.

Scotty B

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Jon Skagfeld

Yes, you heard it here first. Canada's Light Support Vehicle Wheeled fleet is grounded as of today.

The LSVW brakes, failing at a high rate, have caused DND to issue this nation-wide grounding.

Fortunately the brakes on the LSVW I was driving at OPMarcot didn't fail when I set the unofficial land speed record for this vehicle on level ground or else I would have ended up in St. George's Bay. It did however, require all 10,000' of runway and a tail wind at Harmon AFB (ex) to achieve 105kph. I was unable to repeat this feat in the opposite direction within the hour and, both not having any F.A.I. official timers present and the need to clear the runway for a CF188 trap with our MAGs forces my record to remain unofficial.
Derek

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

How this POS vehicle that wouldn't reliably start below -10 when new ever got procured is still beyond me.

Liberal government or political influence in military procurement? This was foisted upon the CF by the same gang of clowns that screwed up the helo project and committed a litany of major crimes against the Canadian taxpayer. If you believe my politically correct and brainwashed liberal neighbours, Bob Rae will be the next PM and will sort everything out... He and Dalton... I shudder at the thought.

[mike mckinley]

i think i have a manual for an lsvw here if anyone need to borrow it

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by mike mckinley

i think i have a manual for an lsvw here if anyone need to borrow it

If its a legitimate copy, the "Recovery Procedures" chapter should be almost blackened with greasy finger prints, and have a couple dozen stapled in "Revisions"

[Ed Storey]

No, not the LSVW fleet!! Say it is not true...

[mike mckinley]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

If its a legitimate copy, the "Recovery Procedures" chapter should be almost blackened with greasy finger prints, and have a couple dozen stapled in "Revisions"

yep, it's legit....i also noticed a few cigarette burns and some water marks..no doubt tears shed by mechanics who were probably thinking "why me"

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by sapper740

Fortunately the brakes on the LSVW I was driving at OPMarcot didn't fail when I set the unofficial land speed record for this vehicle on level ground or else I would have ended up in St. George's Bay. It did however, require all 10,000' of runway and a tail wind at Harmon AFB (ex) to achieve 105kph. I was unable to repeat this feat in the opposite direction within the hour and, both not having any F.A.I. official timers present and the need to clear the runway for a CF188 trap with our MAGs forces my record to remain unofficial.
Derek

I'm surprised Glass wasn't shattering all over town when you applied the Brakes at the end of your run.

Long before this whole fiasco, I had the misfortune of spending 6 months behind the Wheel of one of these rolling follys. Aside from the usual little issues like ripping my pockets off on the Park Brake Handle getting in and out, and physically not being able to correctly fit behind the Steering Wheel with Body Armour on (I was 185lbs, so don't blame me ), I did find the LSVW Brakes particularly effective at getting Bosnian pedestrians off of the road. A light shove on the pedal let off a Shriek so loud people scattered, followed by complete and utter dissapointment when a silly Green rattling mess rumbled past at 15 km/h.

Hopefully Rob Love will chime in here when he gets a chance. I'm very surprised the Maint System didn't turn a blind eye back when they had the charging problems that resulted in fires. That alone could have thinned the herd quite a bit.

As for me, I can't wait for these things to go surplus because of the good laughs i'm gonna have reading all of the Epay and Kijiji adds describing the "Battle Chariot" characteristics of these Trucks like they do with the Iltis right now.

Mike, I haven't had a laugh that good in a very long time.... The Tears and Cigarette burns definately summed it up.

Scotty B

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

... I can't wait for these things to go surplus because of the good laughs i'm gonna have reading all of the Epay and Kijiji adds describing the "Battle Chariot" characteristics of these Trucks like they do with the Iltis right now. Scotty B

Stop giving away my selling strategy...I am sure that they will do as well as the Iltis has with the "wannabe" crowd (myself included...). Despite its piss poor performance and wonky character, they will be pursued. In my case as a rolling testament to shabby procurement practices (directed purchase that placed military needs after regional economic needs) and PMO interference - a fitting tribute to liberal mismangement.

I will even name it "Jean", the MOST lil' truck that couldn't...

[edstorey]

I think the odd one has already hit the surplus market.

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

I did find the LSVW Brakes particularly effective at getting Bosnian pedestrians off of the road. A light shove on the pedal let off a Shriek so loud people scattered, followed by complete and utter dissapointment when a silly Green rattling mess rumbled past at 15 km/h.Scotty B

You sure didn't need a horn when driving one, a light tap on the brakes and the fillings in the teeth of anyone within a kilometre would vibrate in resonance. I guess that's why it was designated a LogisticalSVW instead of a TacticalSVW. I was told by a RCEME type that there was a cure for the brake squeal that involved grinding some metal off the shoes or such-like. Apparently some units allowed their mechanics to do this "fix" and it solved the problem for the most part. Anyone else ever remember being told of this? Derek.

[edstorey]

I believe LSVW stands for Light Support Vehicle Wheeled just as MLVW stands for Medium Logistics Vehicle Wheeled and HLVW for Heavy Logistics Vehicle Wheeled.

[rob love]

I presently drive one to and from work each day. As if those squeeling brakes weren't bad enough, the bin doors keep falling open and off, and there always seem to be US servicemen nearby to point it out too. I have had Americans throwing jokes at me through the missing window on the drivers side when I am squeeling to a stop at the many, many intersections here. I, of course get the last laugh when I drive to work at 7am right by all their living quarters, brakes squeeling lound enough to drown out gunfire.

Since I have to watch what I say, being that I am presently employed by a private company on contract with the DND, then I will just keep the rest of my opinions of the truck to myself for now.

I discussed the squeeling brakes with one of the LCMMs one time, and they did find a solution that worked. It was to instal those spring/rubber bands over the drums like you use when you are turning drums on a brake lathe. However, this mod was never followed through.

For those who are blaming the Liberals for this, I think you need to go back to your calenders and count backwards. The truck was chosen during the tail end of the Mulroney/conservative regime. At the time, the regular conservatives were bailing like rats on a sinking ship, and Canada got it's first female prime minister, who previous to that was the Minister of National Defense. Seems to me that in his recent memoirs, Mulroney felt that Kim Campbell was too busy with her new Italian boyfriend that she lost the election. She was , of course, elected from BC. So is it any surprise that we got a BC built Italian truck?

The election gave rise to the reform party, which later had the trailings of the conservatives merge with them to form the New Conservative party we have today.

I work on and see the equipment now that the troops drive out the gates each day, and it is second to none. LSVWs are relegated to base duties, and lets face it, the world tempo has moved any softskin vehicles to rear echelon/ administrative duties anyway.

Anyway, I hope the grounding of the fleet does not make it to here. That would mean I would have to walk to work.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by rob love

For those who are blaming the Liberals for this, I think you need to go back to your calenders and count backwards.

Done. Contract was awarded prior to 1993 and seemingly before the 35th Parliament. I stand corrected - the interference started with the cons. While I take particular joy at liberal gaffes, in fairness I must give equal time to con gaffes as well.

I'll change the name of potential squeeler from "Jean" to "Mary"...as soon as I finish eating crow...

[rob love]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

While I take particular joy at liberal gaffes, in fairness I must give equal time to con gaffes as well.
...

Nobody likes to take stabs at the Liberals more than I. One must remember that the conservatives back then were just Liberals with blue ties instead of red. They were completely interchangeable with one another, and choosing one party or another really was a matter of who pissed you off the least that year previous. The Liberal party, with their useless gun registry and nickle and diming the military (all the while stealing from the taxpayer to maintain their parties "natural ruling" status) have earned my eternal disdain.

[maple_leaf_eh]

A transmission with no Park; a gas guage that stops indicating a 1/4; a parking brake that is up when it is off; an engine that won't shift into gear if revving too high; the famous non-asbestos brakes; tool bins that don't close properly (been there, done that, did the walk of shame too); a wonky diesel preheat system; a spare tire mount that can kill at the flick of a switch; ... etc.

We have nobody but our leaders to blame for this. When errors and failings were found, the bosses ignored their soldiers. The guys who accepted the make-it-look-better programs, had their loyalties backwards. And, lets not forget the politics of regional diversification. Why give the contracts to companies that know how to build trucks? Surely some under-challenged economist can cook up a business / economic model that makes more sense! But ultimately, some officer was more afraid of his boss than he was respectful of his commissioning scroll.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

But ultimately, some officer was more afraid of his boss than he was respectful of his commissioning scroll.

Terry.

In the end, military contracts are reviewed by a number of committees - both military and civilian. All projects are looked at in terms of regional benefits and offsets. The "pie" is cut supposedly to meet the needs of the military while benefiting Canadian industry and employment.

It matters little if the "officer" agrees or disagrees with his "boss". The important decisions for capital projects are made at the civilian level with Treasury Board and sometimes the Cabinet/PM Office making the final decisions. Yes, our senior staff in uniform have the option of coming to attention, saluting and saying "Yes, Sir!", or they can fall on their sword and say "No way am I signing on to this". If they choose the latter, then there is always a willing replacement in the wings ready to do what is "required" despite the direction given on their Commissioning Scroll. But, what does that matter? Military sign off is just a "check in a box" that is a minor formality (and not an obstacle) for the politicians.

Ethics are a funny business and they are subject to cultural and political influences. Knowing what "right" looks like is sometimes filtered by ambition and opportunity - and this applies equally to politicians and military folks alike. While I am not sure of the ins and outs of the LSVW case as I arrived in the requirements world after the LSVW contract award, I can say with some authority that it is not the "officer" who makes the final decision on a project. It is, and it will remain our political masters. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong (LSVW case in point).

[edstorey]

I believe DND never wanted the vehicle and that it was thrust on the department by the government at the time to help the failing Western Star.

[Harry Moon]

When I was driving my C15A home on the freeway on the last dat of the 2005 freedom tour, Between Chilliwack and Abbotsford. I was poking along in the right lane until I came upon a slower truck.... you guessed it, an LSVW, I passsed it. To be fair I was shod with a borrowed set of 13X20's that really got me going.