Driving on right/left more than you want to know

[Bill Murray]

Regarding the thread on the Chev sedan in Libya, please go to the following site for an exhaustive analysis of the whole subject.

http://brianlucas.ca/roadside/#historical

The only surprises I found in current practices were the following.

Cyprus
Fiji
Macau
Somalia
Thailand

Which currently drive on the left and have not been under British control for many decades, if ever.

I enjoy homework.
Bill

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Bill Murray

The only surprises I found in current practices were the following.

Cyprus
Fiji
Macau
Somalia
Thailand

Which currently drive on the left and have not been under British control for many decades, if ever.

Bill,
Don't forget Japan drives on the left and I am sure that it was not due to us Brits influencing them.

Richard

[Keith Webb]

When I was in Burma in the 1970s most of the vehicles were still right-hand drive despite a change to driving on the right about a decade earlier. It was the cause of many fatalities and accidents.

At least we still drive on the correct side of the road in our CMPs - what could be more important sign we're right than that?

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Which currently drive on the left and have not been under British control for many decades, if ever.

But, we did at one time or the other own the whole world and have subsequently given it all back; which is nice. :

R.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by FV623
But, we did at one time or the other own the whole world and have subsequently given it all back; which is nice. :

Yes.... silly bunts, the lot of you! The most benevolent empire in human history, and the most civilising influence to-boot... sacrificed on a whim.... tsk-tsk.

Just don't let it happen again. [/stern talking-to]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Yes.... silly bunts, the lot of you! The most benevolent empire in human history, and the most civilising influence to-boot... sacrificed on a whim.... tsk-tsk.

Just don't let it happen again. [/stern talking-to]

Ah, quite so.
I have a feeling the little bit of Ireland in the north-east corner will have to be returned sooner or later though but what might happen to that British north portal of the Med is anybodies guess.

So what's left, Diego Garcia and the British Indian Ocean Territory of 60 sq.km populated with 1500 UK/US service personnel and 2000 contractors, The British Virgin Islands where the USD is official currency and of course the Falkland Islands, plus Anguilla, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Guernsey, Jersey, Isle of Man, Montserrat (abandoned to a volcano), Pitcairn Islands (pop.<50), Saint Helena, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands.

Some of these are quite pleasant places, some are not, but collectively and with respect to their populations, where applicable, hardly an empire.

The "Jewel in the Crown" was given back ages ago by Mountbatten; a suitable job since it would be difficult to make a FU of giving a sub-continent away and kept him well away from these shores and Canada especially.

R.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Cyprus

Which currently drive on the left and have not been under British control for many decades, if ever.

Hmm, you should have done your homework a little bit better, Bill...
"Cyprus became of great strategic importance after the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. At the Congress of Berlin in 1878, the Great Powers endorsed an agreement between UK and the Sultan of Turkey upon which the island became under British control while remaining legally part of the Ottoman Empire. In 1914, when Turkey joined the Central Powers in World War I, the UK annexed Cyprus. Both Turkey and Greece recognised British sovereignty over Cyprus under the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne, signed in 1923." (source)

And thanks to the (continuing) military presence of the British during the early 70s, a little Dutch boy was fascinated by the military vehicles (Landies, Stollies) partrolling the streets, laying the base for a life-long interest.

H.

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
a little Dutch boy . . . . . . . . . . .

Hey, c'mon now, tell the truth. Little indeed, 6ft 7in and how many?

R.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by FV623
Hey, c'mon now, tell the truth. Little indeed, 6ft 7in and how many?

6'6" these days, but not twenty-odd years ago...I still have the little camo suit my mom sewed up for me from locally acquired cloth. Me and my friend trotted round in these "uniforms" which got us lots of thumbs up and rides from the British soldiers. Apart from acquiring a taste for military vehicles and kebab, I learned to speak English there.

H.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

British Antarctic Territory, Gibraltar of course, plus Alderney, Sark, Herm, Brechou, Little Jethou, The Minquiers and Rockall PLUS the Cypriot Sovereign Bases. But there's rockall else! Sealand the old WW2 fort in the North Sea we seem to have given up.

[Bill Murray]

Hanno:

I concede on the issue of Britain's sovereignty over Cyprus during many years. Perhaps give me the benefit of the doubt in my saying that Turkey and Greece have been in nominal control of the island for "several decades" which could support my thesis that they would have converted from driving on the left to driving on the right.

Richard F: I guess I hava always considered Japan as a very feudal and very isolated country and sort of assumed they adhered to a much older rule of the "right of way".



Bill

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

I wintered in Athens that year, during some of the Cyprus troubles. It was interesting to see Greek soldiers on the streets dressed in U.S. fatigues and carrying M-1 Garands and BARs... both of which I'd owned and shot previously on my own. I daresay I knew the Garand better than 99.5% of Greek conscripts at the time...

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Bill,
Don't forget Japan drives on the left and I am sure that it was not due to us Brits influencing them.

Richard

Richard..
You Kips missed a few countries..
You are probably in the minority...
Here's the list of right hand drive countries..




Countries Which Drive on the Right-Hand Side


The following is a list of countries of the World whose people drive on the right-hand side of the road. Most of the automotive drivers of these countries utilize left-hand drive vehicles.

Drive Side Country
R Afghanistan
R Albania
R Algeria
R American Samoa
R Andorra
R Angola
R Argentina
R Armenia
R Aruba
R Austria
R Azerbaijan
R Bahrain
R Belarus
R Belgium
R Belize
R Benin
R Bolivia
R Bosnia and Herzegovina
R Brazil
R British Indian Ocean Territory (Diego Garcia)
R Bulgaria
R Burkina Faso
R Burundi
R Cambodia
R Cameroon
R Canada
R Cape Verde
R Central African Republic
R Chad
R Chile
R China, People's Republic of (Mainland China)
R Colombia
R Comoros
R Congo
R Costa Rica
R Croatia
R Cuba
R Czech Republic
R Denmark
R Djibouti
R Dominican Republic
R Ecuador
R Egypt
R El Salvador
R Equatorial Guinea
R Eritrea
R Estonia
R Ethiopia
R Faroe Islands (Denmark)
R Finland
R France
R French Guiana
R French Polynesia
R Gabon
R Gambia, The
R Gaza Strip
R Georgia
R Germany
R Ghana
R Gibraltar
R Greece
R Greenland
R Guadeloupe (French West Indies)
R Guam
R Guatemala
R Guinea
R Guinea-Bissau
R Haiti
R Honduras
R Hungary
R Iceland
R Iran
R Iraq
R Israel
R Italy
R Ivory Coast
R Jordan
R Kazakhstan
R Korea, Democratic People's Republic of (North Korea)
R Korea, Republic of (South Korea)
R Kuwait
R Kyrgyzstan
R Laos
R Latvia
R Lebanon
R Liberia
R Libya
R Liechtenstein
R Lithuania
R Luxembourg
R Macedonia
R Madagascar
R Mali
R Marshall Islands
R Martinique (French West Indies)
R Mauritania
R Mayotte (France)
R Mexico
R Micronesia, Federated States of
R Midway Islands (USA)
R Moldova
R Monaco
R Mongolia
R Morocco
R Myanmar (Burma)
R Netherlands
R Netherlands Antilles (Curacao, St. Maarten, St. Eustatius, Saba)
R New Caledonia
R Nicaragua
R Niger
R Nigeria
R Northern Mariana Islands (Saipan)
R Norway
R Oman
R Palau
R Panama
R Paraguay
R Peru
R Philippines
R Poland
R Portugal
R Puerto Rico
R Qatar
R Reunion
R Romania
R Russia
R Rwanda
R Saint Barthélemy (French West Indies)
R Saint Martin (French West Indies)
R Saint Pierre and Miquelon (France)
R Samoa
R San Marino
R Sao Tome e Principe
R Saudi Arabia
R Senegal
R Sierra Leone
R Slovakia
R Slovenia
R Somalia (a parts of Somalia, Somaliland, drives on the left)
R Spain
R Sudan
R Svalbard (Norway)
R Sweden
R Switzerland
R Syria
R Taiwan
R Tajikistan
R Togo
R Tunisia
R Turkey
R Turkmenistan
R Ukraine
R United Arab Emirates
R United States
R Uruguay
R Uzbekistan
R Vanuatu
R Venezuela
R Vietnam
R Wake Island (USA)
R Wallis and Futuna Islands [Fr.]
R West Bank
R Western Sahara (ex Spanish Sahara)
R Yemen
R Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro)
R Zaire

Now get on the proper side of the damned road before you get run over...

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Richard..
You Kips missed a few countries..
You are probably in the minority...
Here's the list of right hand drive countries..

Now get on the proper side of the damned road before you get run over...

Yes, Alex - just goes to show how many countries can get it wrong...

The argument for us CMP fans is similar to the "If God had wanted us to fly he'd have given us wings"

If Canada had made CMPs left hand drive we'd all be driving on the right...

So it's up to you guys, either drive on the left where you should be or move somewhere that does.

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Yes, Alex - just goes to show how many countries can get it wrong...

And, for fair number of those countries listed we should use the term "drive" & "side" loosely, very loosely indeed.

So it's up to you guys, either drive on the left where you should be or move somewhere that does.

Quite so, and it allows you to readily draw and operate your bludgeon, knobkerry, sword, musket, pistol, Bren or half-inch Browning to fend off the villains and footpads coming the other way.

As a further bonus we can import the interesting Holden Monaro CV8 at a very good price with almost three Oz dollars to the pound and utilise it to the full, since the steering wheel is in the right place.

R.

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by FV623

As a further bonus we can import the interesting Holden Monaro CV8 at a very good price with almost three Oz dollars to the pound and utilise it to the full, since the steering wheel is in the right place.

R.

Indeed - and this is what you're talking about.



Source

At about 20K GBP it's a steal. I wonder whether they make 'em in khaki?

Also, it comes from the same factory which built this speedy number:

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Indeed - and this is what you're talking about.

At about 20K GBP it's a steal. I wonder whether they make 'em in khaki?

YESSSSSSSSSSSS, that's the jobber, I'll give one o' them some serious right wellygog. (Traction control "OFF" please).

I had some very nice Aussies come to "Overlord" to camp only, in several emails to arrange, I suggested they bring me a CV8 as an "appeasement", here it is below.

Also, it comes from the same factory which built this speedy number:

Ah, now we prefer the "Fix Or Repair Daily" variant; the ones with the "you'll-never-get-it-right-twice-in-a-row" gearbox, the charming "grind-either-end-to-adjust" valves and the "Detach-O-Matic™" dynamo that modifies the radiator.

R.

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by FV623
YESSSSSSSSSSSS, that's the jobber, I'll give one o' them some serious right wellygog. (Traction control "OFF" please).

I had some very nice Aussies come to "Overlord" to camp only, in several emails to arrange, I suggested they bring me a CV8 as an "appeasement", here it is below.

Ah, now we prefer the "Fix Or Repair Daily" variant; the ones with the "you'll-never-get-it-right-twice-in-a-row" gearbox, the charming "grind-either-end-to-adjust" valves and the "Detach-O-Matic™" dynamo that modifies the radiator.

R.

You mean one of these beauties, specifically designed to drive on the left?



This is the model with traction control permanently off... and with 95 sturdy horses driving those melodious spur gears...

[Bill Murray]

Nice Ford, Keith, also large.

That Holden Monaro is sold in the US as the Pontiac GTO. Don't know what motor it has in Oz but here it has the Corvette V8.

Retail price is $31,795 which is a bit much and the car is missing it's sales target by a pretty wide margin. I assume it is sold in Canada as well.

To the left/right thing, I did not do any more searching beyond what I posted yesterday but I remember a lot of cars in Argentina being right hand drive in the thirties and later imported to the US.
Anyone know if at that time they drove to the left? As well, I seem to remember some movies with a Chinese theme pre WWII and I could swear they were driving on the left as well. I will ask my father, he served there for 3 years 1937-1940.
Cheers
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Argentina and Uruguay drove on the left until ... post-war?

The Holden Monaro is sold as the Vauxhall Monaro in the UK.

[Bill Murray]

Thanks, David:

I know there was a very large British influence in both Argentina and Uruguay in the 1800's/1900's due to the trade in beef and maybe wheat. Seems to have lasted quite a while.

The Vauxhall Monaros in the UK, are they V8s as well? I don't know what engines are offered in Oz, but maybe smaller ones as well.

As a side note, Pat and I visited Belize for a day on a HobbyTown sponsored Carib Cruise in March and I was totally amazed to not only discover that they drive on the right but that all of the earlier British cars were nowhere to be seen. Probably 70% American minivans and trucks and 30% Japanese sedans and light trucks.

Our guide, who was driving a Plymouth Voyager purchased in Texas, said all the old British stuff was sold off as scrap to Mexico when the NAFTA agreement came into effect and Mexico built up it's assembly operations.

I asked our guide to give me a tour of the auto scrap yards as a sort of side tour and we did not find one single British vehicle left out of perhaps 6-8 yards.

Little current history for you David.
Bill

[Keith Webb]

Surely it would be a 1300cc with twin carbies and a chrome rocker cover.
They'd also delete the aircon, heater and the radio would be an optional extra.

Perhaps rebadged as a Monaro Viva

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Surely it would be a 1300cc with twin carbies and a chrome rocker cover.
They'd also delete the aircon, heater and the radio would be an optional extra.

Perhaps rebadged as a Monaro Viva

I know where you're coming from. . . . . . . . . . .
Thankfully just rebadged as Vauxhall, being the UK tradename for GM, and called the Monaro 5.7i; indeed there is even an official tweaked version called the VXR with a useful heap of extra ponies, that is if the 329 of the normal version is inadequate.

What I don't know is if the speech announcement warning system has been changed on the UK "production" versions; early trade/media Holden demonstrators had the traction control "ON" setting to announce:
"You bloody pommie woose."

In fact at the full list of just over 28K pounds, this is about a third of the price for any super-car here, plus the advantage of a major, national "maker" with its extensive garage network.

R.

Originally posted by Keith Webb
You mean one of these beauties, specifically designed to drive on the left?

This is the model with traction control permanently off... and with 95 sturdy horses driving those melodious spur gears...

Ah, yes. The over-rich hot start, percolating carb and delightful engine cover arrangement too.

As for the melodious and unforgiving spur gears, probably better termed cogs here; we are pleased to report less protestation from the Ballard cog-box.

In a bit of non-original, but you'd be hard pressed to see it modification, we have spent a day turning a 4" billet of steel into largely pre-tempered, dark blue, instant watch-spring swarf and fabricated a dynamo nose-piece adaptor to carry a LR 110 viscous fan unit.

Gone is the apparent fan roaring which sounds like the engine being thrashed within an inch of its life even at a fast idle, now there is unmasked audible feedback of what the engine is actually doing, the real practicallity of conversation in the cab and the hithertofore unheard and quite prominent purring of ST24s on tarmac.

Whilst in there, with the rad out, the infamous "Detach-O-Matic™" single dynamo stud has been replaced with an item fabricated from a 12.8 grade allen bolt, the new stud is roll pinned through the manifold casting and this pin cannot come out as it almost hits the dynamo casing; plus the associated nut is castellated and pinned with an R clip for belt adjustment convenience.

Lets see the bugger try and fall off now. . . . . . . . . . . .

Not only is the gearbox breathing a sigh of relief, but we expect Ballard to be substantially quicker to shows and the like now that 50mph actually sounds like revving the engine rather than 32mph, perhaps he'll actually keep up with Rory's PU. . . . . . .

R.