Chevrolet horn button screws

[M.Morren]

Hi,

What kind and size scews are used to hold down the horn button assembly on a Chev steering wheel? Mine has two short phillips head machine screws of different lengths which possibly have damaged the thread in the steering wheel (one of them will not stay in anymore). I'd like to get some new screws for mine but have no idea what thread size and type of head to look for.

Thanks!

[Mike Kelly]

Straining my memory but I think the originals are a raised head C/sunk head screw something like this. I am not sure of the correct thread type or diameter, the link is just a suggestion.

https://www.classicfasteners.com.au/...ess-2ba-x-1-2/

[Jordan Baker]

I believe there were two different kinds of screws that were used depending on the type of steering wheel. If it was the early molded wheel a pair of self threading screws were used with a course thread. These were the screws that came in my NOS GMC horn button kit. The other style were oval head machine screws. Off the top of my head I believe they were a 10-24 thread. I’ll have to check what I used on the wooden CMP steering wheel in my C15a

[Mike Kelly]

I looked at the horn button assembly on my C8.

I am 99% confident the screws are original factory fitted .... but who knows I can't be too certain ?

My hunch was correct, the screws are C/sunk head with a domed top, not flat. The pressed metal ring has holes that are shaped to accept the C/sunk shape.

Those round head screws in Jordan's NOS GMC kit look to be too short for a moulded GM CMP steering wheel plus the round head shape, just doesn't seem they would fit the pressed ring correctly.

[Mike Kelly]

........................................

[David Dunlop]

On the basis of the style of screw alone, the ones Marty has posted a photo of scream post war American replacements, if they came out of his C8A.

To my knowledge, the wartime rule of screws used in Canadian manufacturing was slot head. Post war, the USA went big time towards their Phillips head whereas Canada preferred their own square Robertson design.

Also the screw thread on Marty’s is far too fine when compared to the other photos of originals with a coarser thread. It may be possible to restore the threads chewed out by the replacement screws.

If the anchor material is Bakelite, clean it of dust and wipe the old hole with a thin coat of epoxy and let it cure a week. Then slowly screw in correct screws until they just snug up. If metal base material you can heat it and wipe with solder in the same way with same result.

David

[Lynn Eades]

Slotted head = hand assembly.
Phillips or square = powered assembly.
The flat faced c/s screw top looks so wrong in that situation. It has to be the oval head c/s.
(all aesthetics and my opinion)

[rob love]

Regarding Robertson (square drive) screws in Canadian service or Canadian Automotive, I can think of very few examples of either. I have seen screws on some of the Bren chests that were a combination of Robertson and slot drive. Most of my run-ins with Robertson are with various crates or locally produced wooden items.

[Lynn Eades]

Rob, I wasnt saying that square drives were used in WWII. To me they are a modern thing.

[rob love]

Lynn
I was more referring to David's post.



These days, any visit to Canadian tire or Home depot for machine screws or self tapping screws (aside from drywall screws) inevitably leads to only Robertson being available if using SAE threads. I have had to use metric in the past in order to get slot drive.

[Mike Cecil]

Rob, have you tried McMaster-Carr? UNC, UNF or metric

https://www.mcmaster.com/machine-scr...d-head-screws/

Mike

[rob love]

Believe it or not, McMaster Carr will not export to Canada (this may have changed but I have not heard otherwise).
When I find boxes or jars of old steel, non plated, slot drive screws at the surplus places, I buy them. My inventory is decent enough that I rarely have to order them these days. And when I do need old time fasteners, Blacksmiths bolt and rivet supply in the US is my go-to place. They do not sell torx, robertson, phillips, their hardware is non-plated and usually chemically blackened. https://www.blacksmithbolt.com/

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Rob, another good place of supply.

If you ever need something from the USA that the supplier will not send to Canada (like McMaster Carr), talk to me: I'm happy to act as 'post office' and send whatever it is on to you. Might mean double postage, but at least you'll get what you want/need.

Mike

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by rob love

Regarding Robertson (square drive) screws in Canadian service or Canadian Automotive, I can think of very few examples of either. I have seen screws on some of the Bren chests that were a combination of Robertson and slot drive. Most of my run-ins with Robertson are with various crates or locally produced wooden items.

And this is the sort of rivet counting conversation that makes our hobby interesting? Now the question is not just how many screws but pitch, thread, length and head.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

FWIW, in Kandahar I was in a 4-eyes intelligence office lodged in a plywood hut. The commander was a US Navy three-ringer intelligence officer who had many interesting stories. I was asking about the building and we got talking about which of the US services gets things done in various circumstances. I commented that the electrical panel had been installed by Canadians. Huh? How on earth could I know that? See, Robertson heads on all the hardware.

(In his eyes every Canadian soldier had been something else before he met them, and scratch one and you'd find a former paratrooper in a Navy uniform doing imagery analysis, or university educated former clerks doing maps, or Cpls who were serious tech geeks.)

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by rob love

Believe it or not, McMaster Carr will not export to Canada (this may have changed but I have not heard otherwise).
.... https://www.blacksmithbolt.com/

The president of McMaster Carr did hard time in crowbar hotel after his company sold wrenches or fittings of screws to some place on the US State Dept list of really really bad places.

[Mike Cecil]

Wow! Didn't thread his way through that little problem and got screwed.

What a nut ... wonder he didn't bolt. ( sorry ...)

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by rob love

Believe it or not, McMaster Carr will not export to Canada (this may have changed but I have not heard otherwise).

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

If you ever need something from the USA that the supplier will not send to Canada (like McMaster Carr), talk to me.

We've had lots of posts on MLU about McMaster Carr over the years. Drool-Worthy Catalog, but will not ship to ANY overseas destination, not just Canada. Even using a foreign credit card to place your order (with a US delivery address) will get your order cancelled. Their fingers must have been very badly burnt by past experience, and they are not keen to repeat the lesson.

[Mike Cecil]

Tony, I have a credit card, and they do accept orders from me. It was a genuine offer to MLU members. I doubt very much any MLU member would fail to reimburse me if they availed themselves of the offer.

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

On behalf of the many (I have not asked) and myself, Thank you Mike! I will keep you in mind, but would not take you up on your offer lightly.
There are many areas these days, that are not available in a small country like N.Z. For instance.
Things like American thread form fasteners are fast disappearing from stock lines in this country. Of late. I have been looking for screws for QMC WWII tail lights and have bought a pair (2 screws)for AU $6.60 which is bloody steep. Hopefully they turn up with the right heads and hopefully stainless?
Another thing I cant seem to get here is flaps (rust bands) for a 600 or 6.50 x 16 (combat rim) Seems silly to me.
I buy BSF fasteners from the U.K. because although the odd supplier here, has some 1/4" and 3/8" bsf, nuts they cant / dont supply 5/16 bsf. ( I need them for my riveted carriers)
The world is fast changing.
On another note, I have found a company that will crimp ends onto a jeep hand brake cable. They are a marine company that makes rigging for yachts.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

On behalf of the many (I have not asked) and myself, Thank you Mike! I will keep you in mind, but would not take you up on your offer lightly.
There are many areas these days, that are not available in a small country like N.Z. For instance.
Things like American thread form fasteners are fast disappearing from stock lines in this country. Of late. I have been looking for screws for QMC WWII tail lights and have bought a pair (2 screws)for AU $6.60 which is bloody steep. Hopefully they turn up with the right heads and hopefully stainless?
Another thing I cant seem to get here is flaps (rust bands) for a 600 or 6.50 x 16 (combat rim) Seems silly to me.
I buy BSF fasteners from the U.K. because although the odd supplier here, has some 1/4" and 3/8" bsf, nuts they cant / dont supply 5/16 bsf. ( I need them for my riveted carriers)
The world is fast changing.
On another note, I have found a company that will crimp ends onto a jeep hand brake cable. They are a marine company that makes rigging for yachts.

Yeah everything is changing fast. But the local hardware store in the village here will still sell you nails by weight, the store employee uses old fashioned scales and the nails are put into a brown paper bag . He also sells Whitworth thread fasteners but for how long ?

It's getting to the stage of having to make your own fasteners , I've done this a few times, lucky for me that I have a few different taps and dies, including some B.A. taps that I found at a hamfest , these particular B.A. taps were made by the Pratt & Whitney engine Company U.S.A. Go figure that one !

[motto]

Pratt and Whitney have a diverse history. It is a surprise for many to learn that they were the prime contractor for the establishment of the Lithgow Small Arms factory.

David

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by motto

Pratt and Whitney have a diverse history. It is a surprise for many to learn that they were the prime contractor for the establishment of the Lithgow Small Arms factory.

David

Yes, I had a look on google and I found that P&W, before they opened their aircraft division, were better known as a machine tool company

http://www.lathes.co.uk/pratt&whitney/

https://connecticuthistory.org/the-e...craft-company/

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

On this topic of old hardware getting difficult to find, part of my solution is a large heavy wooden crate in the corner of the shop filled with used but good nuts, bolts, washers, and other hardware. In to this crate goes any old/good hardware the comes up extra in the shop. When working on projects and I need hardware I first look through my new hardware stock when that fail its down on my knees to paw through the box. Amazing how often I find what I need.

This box is a family tradition my dad worked in a Naval Research facility starting in 1942, the box was a fixture in that shop in the late 1950s when the box was headed for the scrap bin, it and its contents came home. From then on it was it was common to be handed a sample nut bolt etc and told to "find me one of these" that's how learned about sizes, thread counts etc.

I actually have several of these "hoarding" boxes 3 with all the original bolts taken off my CMPs you know the ones not good enough to reuse but still good. Another has new extra hardware left over that not been sorted back in to new hardware stock shelves.

No I don't have the WWII box of bolts my brother has that in his shop.

For years I have harvested all the nuts bolts screws from any piece of equipment that has reached end of life. One thing that has become obvious over the last 20 years is that the quality of hardware use has gone down sharply.

Cheers Phil

[Lynn Eades]

Well, ... we certainly derailed this thread (as it has already been used by some other nut) No pun intended.

[Mike Cecil]

Hardly 'derailed', as Marty's questions have been more than adequately answered as to the type, size and where he might obtain the screws he requires, plus a whole load of peripheral discussion around the topic.

MLU at its best: what can be better than that?

Mike

[M.Morren]

Thank you all! Definitely some great info here :-)

I'll go looking for a couple of nice C/S oval head slotted screws.
At first I thought that the screws pictured would not fit, but it turns out thet the holes are around 9mm deep. So that looks right. There also seems to be some remnants of the course thread left, which means that these self tapping screws were once fitted (which I didn't doubt).


On the topic of McMaster Carr: I have some experience there as I managed to order almost $70 worth of nuts and bolts, including 400 sets of 6-32 nuts, bolts and washers (impossible to get here, and definitely not that cheap) for my side curtain restoration project.
I had them shipped to an acquaintance in the US. He loaded them in a container that was already coming to this side of the pond. Saved me a lot in shipping costs (The package was heavy).

I don't think that I have to do this again, but we'll see

[Andrew Rowe]

I would like to chip in, by saying , I had a recent purchase of 500kg of NOS wartime BSF countersunk, slot head machine screws in various lengths and sizes , along with bolts and some BA stuff as well. No rust condition present, as they must seem to have a high Nickle content , excellent manufacture and quality....great for bolting front Carrier plates on, Cheers Andrew.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Andrew Rowe

I would like to chip in, by saying , I had a recent purchase of 500kg of NOS wartime BSF countersunk, slot head machine screws in various lengths and sizes , along with bolts and some BA stuff as well. No rust condition present, as they must seem to have a high Nickle content , excellent manufacture and quality....great for bolting front Carrier plates on, Cheers Andrew.

500kg of BSF fasteners !

Maybe one of the erudite MLU members could start a new thread on fasteners, no, not a new fastener thread type but a new thread topic