Beware: Repro 1 CACR titles

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Lord have mercy on yore pore pore souls you old retrobates. You're both up Poop-Creek without a paddle now ... and I'm busily seasoning my frying pans for the disciplinary actions I'll inflict on the both of you old farts. Master Sunray first of course... he's near at hand, and if I had a frying pan in me wee bittie hands this minute, I would fling it across the room and knock him out on the couch. (Hmmmm ... he'd never snore again either ... good idea!!!!)

HBM-O ... do remember, I do have a set of keys for the car and it IS only a couple of hours from our door to yours ... one day .... well, just know that everytime theres a knock at your door it could be followed by the sounds of ringing between yore hairy old ears when you open the door.

: ...What have "Us" old buggers gone and done now thats got you all fired up MA .....: . We were just having a conversation concerning the various sizes of BD and how some mannequins are to small to be used as models to display them on, thats all. Its not our fault that there isn't a set of BD on this planet that will fit your small itty bitty frame, now is it.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
: ...What have "Us" old buggers gone and done now thats got you all fired up MA .....: . We were just having a conversation concerning the various sizes of BD and how some mannequins are to small to be used as models to display them on, thats all. Its not our fault that there isn't a set of BD on this planet that will fit your small itty bitty frame, now is it.

She's been having a blonde moment... seems totally illogical of course, but then again, so are most of that estrogen-class of extraterrestrial...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Speaking of such things, has anyone an original set of 31 Brigade green hourglass badges?

No idea if this is an original.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rob van Meel
On Kangaroos in Tilburg. I'll go and see the local history department of the city. Maybe they may be able to help.

See my reply in Kangaroo Photos wanted.

And Hanno: sounds good, if you want to coeme down.

I can come down with Bill Miller and his father on 6 or 7 May.

H.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
No idea if this is an original.

No idea Hanno, although I suspect it's a fake. I have two of the latter, different colours, although one is close to yours. I shall have to investigate further.

G.

[Bill Alexander]

Bill, What is the provenance of the 1 CACR tunic? It is interesting in that the brigade and divisional patch have black backing material. Was this a common practice, or was this done to fancy up this "best" battledress?
And, may I copy the image for use in my reference collection of Canadian army cloth?

[Bill Alexander]

Hanno, a couple of suspicious things about the hourglass that you posted. The material appears to be a felt, whereas the material that is on the battledress appears to be wool. In addition the hourglass has sharp points on the ends rather that somewhat rounded as seen on the tunic. These may be found in an unused item, but I have my concerns. The hourglass is incredibly easy to replicate.

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

The Tunic photo that Hanno posted for me belonged to Trooper Karl Lemon. His grandson now holds his items which are numerous. They include a badged beret, complete uniform, photos, many misc. unused and used insignia and more...

The black backing on the insignia is probably only on "best" BD. I also have a photo of Tpr Lemon in uniform and the shoulder title seems a bit bulky but from what I can make out of his and two other men's 79AD and 31Bde patches they have no dark outline.
Of these "two piece" constructed insignia...All the pieces are sewn to black wool, possibly beret material. It makes them quite thick and bulky. It does seem to be common, at least to "B" Squadron personnel. I have a photo of Tpr. Vic Norburn's BD that is at the Lorne Scots Museum in Brampton (He was B Squadron as well). It is badged identically. My dad was in "A" squadron I will ask him tomorrow if he remembers how his insignia was put together, though he gave away his uniforms to his brother to use as "workshop" clothing back in '46...

I have also seen a pair of diablos from Trooper Clifford Phillips that were a green cotton or khaki drill material with a dark black outline as well. It was under glass so I can not be sure of the actual construction but I think it was two piece as well.

Sewing the "Bevo" style shoulder title to a backing makes sense since they are incredibly flimsy, being an artifical silk material. Since we are talking about these shoulder titles I may as well pass along the detailed information I got from a Dutch collector about thier origins.

A sample book from the "Van Engelen en Evers" weaving mill in Heeze was sold to militaria dealer in Rotterdam in 1959. This book contained the mill's samples of insignia it produced for 21 AG in 1944-45 and the Dutch army up to 1959. Inside were samples of Canadian cloth insignia for 1CACR, 1st Canadian Army lozenge and rank pips as well as 20+ insignia for the British (including 79 AD), Poland, and US 9th Army. I purchased the 1CACR title from this book back in January. I also got scans of the othe Canadian items from the book (which have all been sold now).

Trooper Lemon's collection had one unused diablo in it, it was not mounted to black cloth and looked to be hand cut as it was slightly irregular. Theses diablos are a very bright green wool/melton. His collection had both Bevo 79AD insignia and printed cotton. As well he had a few of the "melton" shoulder titles, unused and not mounted to any backing.

One other item I found interesting in the Lemon collection was a solid black lanyard. Years ago I purchased a very similar style lanyard in Black and Orange "said" to be 1CACR but no real provenance...

Feel free to email me if you want any further information or photos.

Bill Miller

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Rob van Meel
On a more positive note: as the Kangaroos had a HQ set up in Tiilburg on November1, 1944, has anyone got any details on this as I live there and may try to get any then and now pictures?

Hi Rob;

I knew I'd find it sooner or later, anyways, Regimental Headquarters (RHQ), 1st CAPCR was established in the Offices and Warehouse of Van Loon & Company, Lancierstraat (Tilburg), on 6 Nov 1944.

Cheers