The Snakes Alive CMP Wiring Project

[Keith Webb]

The Snakes Alive CMP wiring project.

In the process of doing some wiring on my FGT I found myself wondering just how should the wiring look and be routed on a CMP. I have spent a lot of time over the past 40 years looking at, photographing and collecting CMPs and parts and have been fortunate to have quite a collection of images and some original looms. So, with the aid of these images, and even the loan of some precious looms from others the aim is to provide as complete as possible record of how things should go for the purist. Please feel free to share images of original wiring both in situ on vehicles or new old stock if you are so fortunate.

I am initially concentrating on Ford Cab 13 types but also have a new Chevrolet wiring loom to photograph.

I am posting this on both the Maple Leaf Up forum and the Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles Facebook group.

Snakes Alive title.jpg

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

The Snakes Alive CMP wiring project.


I am posting this on both the Maple Leaf Up forum and the Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles Facebook group.

Crikey Keith,
When I read the title I thought you had found a snake in the wiring

Anyway, an interesting project.

cheers Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

I am posting this on both the Maple Leaf Up forum and the Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles Facebook group.

Keith,

Great project! Would be nice if you / we could collect enough information for MLU members to piece together their own wiring loom.

Thanks,
Hanno

PS: I hope you are directing people to mapleleafup.net instead of mapleleafup.org - or was it that long ago since you starting to hunt down the snake

[Lauren Child]

Great project I was wondering how cables were supposed to be routed.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Keith

Great idea, I have been frustrated in the past by not being able to make this wiring harness information understandable, and usable. I have Chevy Pat 13 Late, Pat 13 Early, and Pat 12 harnesses staked out on large plywood panels, which I have used to make harnesses for my own CMPs and a few others. (No I'm not looking to do more harnesses until I get 3 other restoration projects out of my shop. I have not really been able to work in the shop for 3 months because of a shoulder problem.)

My problem is in figuring out how to reproduce at full size these boards to share with people. Take a look at what is already up on my website http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...nformation.htm
http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...%20Harness.htm

What can be done practically to make this information in particular the pin panels reproducible? Any thoughts or tricks for making digital photos which can produce 1 to 1 size accuracy? These things are huge 3 x 8 feet.

W Pat 12 wiring harness 008.jpg

What I've done is spread out on paper covered plywood the complete harnesses from my trucks, which fortunately had not been butchered or modified. Each branch has been fastened down with notes on each lead. Wiring diagram ID number, function, gauge and color code.
Copy of Wiring Harness Guestion 001.jpg

Some good news the differences for the Chevy Pat 13 to accommodate the different wheelbases is simple as all the harness are the same back to the connections inline with the transfer case the rear harness then is simple to adjust for 101, 134, or 158 wheel base. The differences for the different dash is similarly relatively easy to account for by making all the dash leads longer.

This is an interesting project and hope that we can add this information succesfully to the CMP knowledge base.

Cheers Phil

[Keith Webb]

Good to see there's interest in it... my aim is to not only show what goes where but also to show as far as possible what things looked like when new.

As an example how many know the speedo cable on a Ford CMP should be secured by a clip on one of the rear valley cover bolts on the engine?

The condition most people find a CMP these days is far from original so having some sort of guide I think will be really helpful which is why it's great to see the likes of experts such as Phil Waterman chiming in.

Just on that note Phil - probably the best way to photographically document your pinboards (which I think are an excellent idea) is to carefully take a series of photographs with the camera on a tripod, moving it a measured distance each time so there is overlap to allow the photos to be stitched together. Don't use a wide angle lens because the distortion makes it difficult to align things. You can then create a panorama which can be scaled to show the whole thing or zoom into details as needed.

Just had a look at your page on wiring which is just the sort of thing we need to let everyone know is available, fantastic work. We spend so much time reinventing the wheel! I will concentrate on doing the Ford version of this.

There are of course places such as Vintage Wiring Harness here who make new versions and say they have patterns to make harnesses for Ford and Chevrolet CMPs. I've seen the wires which are a modern, safe sort of facsimile of the originals.

Your point about the voltage cut out rather than proper fusing or breaker is a good one and I think something like that should be incorporated, hidden behind the dash.

[motto]

I am currently wiring up a Dodge WC57 Command Car and even with original wiring harnesses it's not easy to figure out exactly how they were installed.
Keith's suggestion to include detailed photos of everything in situ is a very good one.

David

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Please feel free to share images of original wiring both in situ on vehicles or new old stock if you are so fortunate.

Hi Keith,

Just to kick it off:

Not to be forgotten are the small harnesses on the light switch and Ignition/fuel gauge switch plates.

I have attached a photo of a NOS Ford CMP Ignition/Fuel gauge harness. It is complete minus the bullets. I unsweated the bullets to use on a new harness I made up as I do not trust 70 year old wiring.

The bullets going into the original switches were the more straight type as opposed to the rounded type that were used where it joins the main harness. One is still left on wire No. 45 at top of photo.

Of interest is that wire for the Autopulse (electric fuel pump). The switch plate it came off however did not have that switch fitted so it appears they may have included it in the harness at manufacture just in case.

Hope this is of some interest.

Cheers,

[maple_leaf_eh]

Stop trying to solve other guys' problems. The easiest way to record the wiring panels is to photograph them with a digital camera. There is software that stitches several images together side by each parallel to the plate (to remember an old CBC radio comedy character and his bacon and eggs). The next guy can either use your individual pictures to make his own mosaic, or if he is smart and has friends with a 36" plotter, makes a paper layout on a single sheet.

[Keith Webb]

Jacques, those wires look a bit different to the ones on the NOS looms I have - the attached pic is of the lighting switch loom.

lighting_switch_wires.jpg

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Hi Keith,

Just to kick it off:

Not to be forgotten are the small harnesses on the light switch and Ignition/fuel gauge switch plates.

I have attached a photo of a NOS Ford CMP Ignition/Fuel gauge harness. It is complete minus the bullets. I unsweated the bullets to use on a new harness I made up as I do not trust 70 year old wiring.

The bullets going into the original switches were the more straight type as opposed to the rounded type that were used where it joins the main harness. One is still left on wire No. 45 at top of photo.

Of interest is that wire for the Autopulse (electric fuel pump). The switch plate it came off however did not have that switch fitted so it appears they may have included it in the harness at manufacture just in case.

Hope this is of some interest.

Cheers,

[Mike Kelly]

Bill Drew had original Chev CMP wiring looms ( $15 each ), the main long loom with all the shorter off shoots to the accessories. I did buy two many years ago but I resorted to cutting sections out and re-soldering ends on. They were stacked up in the corner of a room in one of the many yards he had around the suburbs.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

For reference, source Mike Reed:

“WIRING HARNESS. Thought to be for the early style cab, 11 & 12 Ford. Never used. 4 switches, 3 light sockets. Metal identification tag C11Q-14401C.“

C11Q-14401C is the latest version of "Wiring - cowl" for the Cab 11 and 12 - ref. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...334#post222334

9B279DD7-BECE-4C88-9F8D-1E2E77A48CC6.jpeg 1BAEE663-FB67-4325-B1C2-AB95B14D0725.jpeg B23ECD25-961B-4F2C-AA60-6F5054322EA0.jpeg 81A0B128-1C53-4F13-86E9-D54E695EBBD8.jpeg

[Dave Schindel]

I have a NOS wiring harness, supposed to fit a F15a cab 11, C11ADF-14401B. If someone can confirm the application of this harness I will take some pics and post them here. I have most of the wires identified and labeled . If anyone knows what the ADF part of the number means that would be great.
Dave

[John Winfield]

I'm now looking at replacing the wiring in my 1943 F15A, and have been trying to piece together what I'm going to need, using the harness and wiring diagram from the shop manual. But it doesn't include the wire gauges.

Has anybody tabulated the wire gauge of the various wires?

John

[Phil Waterman]

Hi John

As the vehicles are are very close to being identical I'd suggest using the Chevy wire gauge as shown on the wiring diagram. Given that much/or all the wire used was steel wire when you change over to copper wire it should have no problem carring the load.

I did a lot of checking around when doing the harness with my trucks and have had no problems. I've posted my notes on wiring harness http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...nformation.htm

Cheers Phil

[John Winfield]

Phil:

Thanks for your info - I had already looked it over and it was very helpful. But there seem to be some basic differences between the Ford and the Chev (voltmeter vs ammeter, for example). I probably got about 75% of what I needed. I guess I'll make my best guess for the rest, and when in doubt - go a little thicker.

John

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

This is probably a question for the Australian members as it is about the wiring to the two headlights on those Ford CMP trucks with Australian cabs.

Just trying to nut out the wiring on the front cowl from a very ratty remnant of a cowl harness and upper terminal block. The Ford CMP Maintenance Manual does not cover the wiring from the dip switch to the Hi and Low beams of the two lights as used on these trucks so it is not the final word in this regard.

I have traced out the wiring as best I can with a multimeter and exposing some of the original colour wire. The wiring to the left side of the cowl seems pretty straightforward from the remnant. Looks like the left sidelight has about a 24" tail on it to connect to the harness as shown in last photo. A 24" tail on the right sidelight would nicely connect it to the single wire No. 6 shown in the photos. Likewise the tails on the right headlight, if the same length as those on the left side headlight, would connect nicely into the short tails at the terminal block. We all know how Henry liked to keep it simple and common.

The short tails on the Hi and Low beam terminals have me wondering if a double connector was used at those positions from the dip switch to the terminal block. It would also allow the right hand headlight to be plugged into them. See example on the low beam wire No.4. Not shown is the Hi beam indicator wire which I assume attaches to the terminal strip with an eye or could also be plugged into the back of a double adaptor with a bullet end if used? The other option would be to use an eye end to the Hi and Low beam terminals at the back side but I don't see any sign that ones were ever attached there.

I am also guessing that the power from the light switch goes to a terminal on the lower terminal strip and then to the dip switch input terminal.

Does anyone have an original dip switch to terminal block harness to compare, or have seen original double connectors used there?

Cheers,

[Keith Webb]

Here are some I took of one of Tony Wheeler's F60S a couple of years ago - a pity it's too dirty to see the wire codes but you can see the doubled up wire on the terminal block. Sorry I didn't trace and number them!
Hope they help - it's not often you come across original wiring these days.
The wiring to the dipswitch is perilously close to the clutch pedal and you can see how it has been wearing on one of the wires. The terminals are also very close to the splash shield which is often either removed or has been cut away in that area.

P1030734.jpg P1030740.jpg

P1030735.jpg

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by John Winfield

Phil:

Thanks for your info - I had already looked it over and it was very helpful. But there seem to be some basic differences between the Ford and the Chev (voltmeter vs ammeter, for example). I probably got about 75% of what I needed. I guess I'll make my best guess for the rest, and when in doubt - go a little thicker.

John

Hi John,

This probably is a bit late response but it may be of some help.

Most of my wiring on my F15-A has been done with 14 Gauge wire. I used 10 gauge on No.36 generator armature wire and No.38 solenoid to voltage regulator. I used 12 gauge on No.34 generator earth and No.35 generator field. These were the gauge wires I found on the original harness.

The outside diameter can be deceptive as the original wires had a thicker covering. What matters is the number of strands in the wire and the load it can carry.
Also some suppliers measure the strands in imperial sizes and others in metric. Some use Nominal sizes 4mm, 5mm, 6mm which has no bearing on the outside diameter or core diameter. All this can add to the confusion of wire selection.

I haven't seen any original 20 gauge wire on my truck. There may have been some 16 gauge wire used in the dash lights, hi beam indicator, and trouble light socket but I opted for 14 gauge all around. I have attached a photo of a wire comparison card I made up a while ago. It may be of some interest.

Cheers,

[Keith Webb]

Hopefully this is helpful Jacques.

Headlight installation 2.jpg

[Dave Schindel]

just wondering if anyone has found a supplier for bullet connectors for the F15a cab 11 ? The old ones are all crimped on so can't be reused . Need 2 different sizes at least. The big ones are .240 OD bullet and the smaller ones are .190. I am using original cloth type wire of the correct color and would like to make the proper connections. Any ideas?
dave

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Bruno Bamdé wrote:

Schema électrique Ford F60T, armée française juin 1945. Les masses sont indiquées

410735407_1115942876069900_1630947793226589462_n.jpg