Rhodesian Carrier

[Mark Mackenzie]

Greetings,

The image below came from the Osprey book on the Rhodesian War.

Cheers,
Mark.

http://www.geocities.com/redironbark...erModified.jpg

[Alex van de Wetering]

Interesting picture. There must be a T16 under there somewhere..

Alex

[Pedr]

It's interesting how "M113"-ish it appears. Noticed that Davey Demorrow in Texas, has/had something similar but I believe on a standard carrier hull.

Pedr

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Mark: thanks for posting this unknown picture!

Alex: yes, most definitely T16-based.

Pedr: would you happen to have any pics of Demorrow's carrier?

I read about a post-war development of the T16 somewhere, will look it up when I'm back home.

Hanno

[alleramilitaria]

didnt want the neibors crying about a cut down carrier, so i kinda modified it to be my rolling parts shed

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

I always knew Texans were mad bastards....

[alleramilitaria]

whats wrong?
dont you know a carrier MKV version?
upguned with a 57mm with a 20mm coax, 2 M-240 GPMGs, 2 MILAN ATGMS, and smoke dischargers? this is the defence of london (ontario) version. if the war had gone to 1947.
dave

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
didnt want the neibors crying about a cut down carrier, so i kinda modified it to be my rolling parts shed

Thanks for posting that pic, Dave. So yours is a home grown one.

Somehow I feel there's more to that Rhodesian carrier than meets the eye.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Somehow I feel there's more to that Rhodesian carrier than meets the eye.

There you go - the Rhodesian Carrier looks suspiciously like the "M203" pictured below. In T16 - the American Carrier" (Classic Military Vehicles, November 2001, p.36-39), David Fletcher writes the following.

Who has information about (American) supplies of arms & armour to Rhodesia?

A photograph exists of a modified version designated M203, which should indicate that it was taken into service by the United States Army, but no published information can be found. The front end has clearly been modified into a more modern configuration and it also appears to carry the designation MCV-167, the meaning of which is unclear - 'Mechanised Cavalry Vehicle' or 'Mechanised Cargo Vehicle' have been suggested but not confirmed.

[Andrew Morrison]

This is second hand info and am not able to easily contact the person involved to reconfirm it however will put this forward for what it is worth.

Was told some time ago about what I think is this carrier which was constructed for airfield defence in what was then Rhodesia in the sixties. It was based on a carrier that was located locally and the modifications were also done on site. Came up as he knew of my interest in carriers.

Not 100% sure as this was a few years ago but there may be a picture of the carrier on the airfield (Is in the background of another photo) in a book they produced. Book is one of these regimental type ones where they record where they went and what they did plus everyones names. Similar to the ones you find of US units.

[Petrus]

I've just noticed that the photo from the Osprey book in the initial post of this thread disappeared. So I post it again as well as another view of the Rhodesian T16 variant in full colour that I found in another forum I belong to.

As for what you call the M203 it really seems very interesting. R.P. Hunnicutt in his "Bradley. A History of American Fighting and Support Vehicles" says nothing about such a vehicle. He mentions only derivative of the T16 designated T16E2 that had slightly different chassis than the basic version but its armour was the same as in the T16. By the way the "M203" in the photo has the chassis of the standard T16 carrier.

Best regards,
Piotr

[maple_leaf_eh]

The print AFV News had several stories in the 70s and 80s on Rhodesian improvised vehicles. These led to books by a Kiwi named Peter Cooke and an ex Rhodesian named Peter Stiff. Their works extensively researched and chronicled the technical histories.

For a landlocked country dependant on the good will and trade links of their neighbours, they did quite well in their arms industries. For example, they rebadged BEDFORDs as RODEF trucks. They devised advanced mine-proofed vehicles on Land Rovers, Unimogs and F150s that were copied and improved by the South Africans, the descendants of which (not whom) are saving lives daily overseas. They also modified whatever was at hand to suit the task.

The T16 carriers photographed are a perfect example of improvise, adapt and overcome to achieve the mission. I doubt there were more than a few, although I will have to refer to my archives to confirm.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Peter Cooke and Peter Locke are the authors. Both New Zealanders.

The carrier is not mentioned in their book, which tells me that it escaped their otherwise exhaustive research. My pencil notation in the book mentions it appearing in Soldier of Fortune, July 1979. It must be a one-of-a-kind. The two photos are coincidentally the same vehicle from two sides.

[dcrfan]

I know this thread is long cold but I just found it. The Rhodesian T16 is remarkably similar to pictures I have seen of similar conversions undertaken during one of the minor African wars (Congo?) which some Rhodesians could well have seen. As is always the case, I can't find the pictures at the moment.

[Lynn Eades]

Hi dcrfan I'm not sure how you have registered without a name, but as you are a kiwi, I'll assume good things, so, welcome aboard!

[dcrfan]

I have recently received further information on this vehicle which goes a little way to solving the mystery. It was the prototype of a private venture modification by a Salisbury engineering company using a T16 chassis removed from a museum. It was tested by the Rhodesian Army Rh Armoured Car Regiment, WO O'Reilly, Troop 4.1 in 1977 at a dam on a farm for its water fording capabilities but deemed not suitable as it was too slow (due to the weight of the armour?) and it's reliability was suspect. Due to these factors it was only suitable for airfield defence. It is unknown if it was actually operated by the Army in this role. The members of the Rhodesian Air Force Regiment who operated Eland 60 armoured cars in air field defence do not recall it being operated by the regular forces.

Paul Napier

[RichardT10829]

Looking at that carrier, you can see where the design inspiration came from for the CVRT Spartan !