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  #31  
Old 27-12-20, 01:56
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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OK. There is a key piece missing here.

We are trying to wrap our heads around two examples of 1941/42 Chevrolet trucks assembled in France, perhaps with 1944 dated engines.

France fell in May/June 1940!

Maybe these vehicles are rebuilds, or assemblies from available surplus, wrecks, parts and wartime KD vehicles, that were being used to jump start French factories and reboot their economy. Whether or not they were LHD or RHD did not matter at all at the time, but getting the country back on its feet did.

Maybe we are looking at these two trucks now through a telephoto lens, when a wide angle one would make more sense.

David
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  #32  
Old 27-12-20, 11:18
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default Tr

I believe the engine prefix 'TR' would be for a Canadian built engine . From memory many CMPs have the 'R' series engines . My C8 has a TR prefix engine in it , so does this Australian coupe ute
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...540#post208540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Hunter View Post
Hi all, thanks for your replies, very interesting! Some further info,
Engine number: TR 3554562
Chassis number: 3200? ( taken from compliance plate not chassis rail)
Body number: F085
Colour: DLX KHAKI
Batch number/date: FO
Chassis is there, missing front right spring perch (rear), I beam Axel, hubs, wheels.
Drive train is there including rear diff with six bolt pattern hubs, tailgate is there and in good order. I have a running 216 to drop right in.
Great to know how few were manufactured, I wonder how many survivors there are?

This might help https://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chev-...dian-chev.html
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1940 Morris-Commercial PU
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1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1950 Land Rover signals replica

Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 03-01-21 at 13:25. Reason: formatting
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  #33  
Old 27-12-20, 14:04
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Richard Farrant Richard Farrant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
Hi Mike,
This is the information and research that our friend and forum member, the late David Hayward compiled.
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1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2
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  #34  
Old 28-12-20, 00:18
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default GM (France), Gennevilliers, Paris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
In a parallel thread Dave posted a picture of the data plate on his truck.

It could well be the plate was fitted when it was rebuilt in France. Or more likely: when it was first assembled at an overseas GM facility from CKD kits.

David Hayward would have been able to explain it to us...
Actually, David Hayward left us a clue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP) View Post
In January 1939, G.M. (France) started C.K.D. production of cars at Gennevilliers with a maximum daily capacity of four cars, either Buick, Chevrolet or Pontiac, six C.K.D. Chevrolet trucks with cabs, 6 M.K.D. [‘Mostly Knocked Down’] or semi-assembly cars from either G.M. Continental, Antwerp, or Adam Opel A.G., and six S.U.P. [‘Single Unit Packs, or fully-assembled] units.
[Read more here...]

I searched for a bit more information and found that “A new plant went into operation at Gennevilliers, France, on the outskirts of Paris, for assembly of completely knocked down (CKD) cars and trucks.” All vehicles assembled there from imported parts were fitted with a General Motors (France) body tag / data plate *) like the one shown above as they are regarded as new vehicles built in France.

I reckon GM Overseas Operations regained control over their Gennevilliers plant right after the war, possibly with the aid of the US Army (late 1945, the US Army 1568th Engineer Depot Company was based at Gennevilliers, Paris). GM then started assembly of CKD kits of these Chevrolet (and other) trucks and cars to fulfill the urgent need for vehicles on mainland Europe. The parts for these kits may well have been manufactured in 1944-1945 under US, United Kingdom or Canadian Government contracts, awaiting shipment for assembly overseas.

*) the one attached below is identical and is fitted to a 1958 Buick
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  #35  
Old 28-12-20, 10:56
Dave Ashby Dave Ashby is offline
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Great detective work Hanno, as always the information is out there itís just knowing where to look
Many thanks to everyone for their input on this thread.

Dave
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  #36  
Old 31-12-20, 19:02
Dave Ashby Dave Ashby is offline
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Whilst taking some measurements of the rear diff on the 1542 for another thread I came across this plate attached to one of the differential bolts.
It reads:

Rear Axle Assy.
Service No 1809572
General Motors Of Canada

Does anyone know what this refers to? It wouldnít be a part no due to being on a removable or equally very losable plate.

Dave

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  #37  
Old 31-12-20, 19:12
Dave Ashby Dave Ashby is offline
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I also found the body plate in the centre of the first cross member right behind the cab so excuse the angle of the photo.
It reads:

Wilson Motor Bodies
Code & Serial No
ULS-2- 255C

A link to info on Wilson Motor Bodies: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/wils...tor_bodies.htm

Dave

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  #38  
Old 03-01-21, 13:30
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default Wilson Motor Bodies

Dave, those tags are interesting finds!

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/wils...tor_bodies.htm

Quote:
Wilson Motor Bodies eventually relocated to larger quarters located at 1153 Queen Street West (at Abell), and when Canada started preparing for Great Britainís entry into the Second World War, they received numerous government contracts, of which several included the manufacture of truck cabs and service bodies for CMP military vehicles supplied to Britain within the Lend-Lease program.

(*CMP refers to Canadian Military Pattern vehicles, a class of Canadian-built military trucks built to British Army specifications for use by members of the British Commonwealth, of which Canada was the largest member.)

C.M.P. chassis manufacturers included Chevrolet, Ford and F.W.D. and the following Canadian firmís supplied the coachwork:

W.D. Beath and Son Ltd, Toronto; Brantford Coach and Body Co. Ltd, Brantford; Canadian Top & Body Co., Tillbury; Dominion Truck Body Ltd., Kitchener; Gotfredson Truck Co. Ltd, Walkerville; Motor Coach Industries, Winnipeg; Preston Metal Products Ltd, Preston; Truck Engineering Ltd., Woodstock; and Wilson Motor Bodies Ltd., Toronto.

Specifically Wilson constructed cabs for 3-ton FWD SU-COE (cab-over-engine) all-wheel-drive chassis which were manufactured by F.W.D. at their Clintonville, Wisconsin plant then transported to Wilsonís plant in Toronto. The F.W.D. SU-COE was supplied as a GS/MAT truck and a tractor for semi-trailers and its bodywork was similar in appearance to that found on British-built AEC Matador artillery prime movers.

War contracts soon exceeded the capacity of their Queen Street plant and a spacious new facility was constructed in Long Branch, Ontario just west of downtown Toronto at 1466 Lake Shore Rd. (now 3560 Lakeshore Blvd., W.).

A 1944 disagreement with Local 252, United Automobile Workers of America, mentions the firm employed 200 at the time.
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  #39  
Old 03-01-21, 13:34
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default GMC 9543 2-Ton truck

Not trying to muddle the water, but compare the Chevrolet 1542 with this 1940 "GMC 9543" 2-Ton truck at the Canadian War Museum.

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https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections/artifact/1317585
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  #40  
Old 04-01-21, 02:39
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default Gmc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Not trying to muddle the water, but compare the Chevrolet 1542 with this 1940 "GMC 9543" 2-Ton truck at the Canadian War Museum.
GMC's could be described as being heavy duty Chevrolet's, the GMC engine is a different beast compared to the basic Chev engine , it is a more refined motor with, I believe, full pressure big ends.
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  #41  
Old 04-02-21, 01:00
Charlie Down Charlie Down is offline
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Dave Ashby

Hi Dave, I've been after photos and dimensions of the bumper bracket for the 1533x2. I am currently supporting several builds and this item has come up as a bit of an issue. I believe the 1543 had the same brackets with support bars. Could you do me a massive favour and take some photos of the bumper brackets and how they fit to the chassis and bumper. Some basic dimensions would be great too.
Thank you.
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  #42  
Old 04-02-21, 03:59
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
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Dave,

Ref your Rear Axle tag from post 36:

It appears that the wide variety of "major assemblies" being stored in Ordnance Depots was cause for confusion by 1944.

The Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers were evidently tasked to produce identification manuals to aid personnel when attempting to determine the correct application for major assemblies (ie: Engines, rear axles, front axles, transmissions, transfer cases, and steering gear).

The two manuals that I have seen are GM Major Assemblies, and Ford Major Assemblies. They include images or drawings which point out the major identification features, the locations of any cast or stamped markings which will aid in identification (ie: gear ratio), and also have data sheets which list all of the components to assist technicians if they needed to convert the major assembly that they had on hand to fit a different vehicle than it was originally intended for.

It appears that at about the same time, the manufacturers were instructed to affix metal tags (such as your example) with the part number of the major assembly. I presume this was seen as a more durable form of marking than any other methods that had been previously employed.

I believe that a few examples of this type of tag have been discussed previously on this forum. An example that comes to mind was an image of a Windsor Carrier engine bearing one of these metal tags that was found in a CMP.

Perhaps someone with easy access to a CMA-02 or FMA-01 can post an image where these tags are explained.

Colin
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  #43  
Old 05-02-21, 04:08
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
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Dave,

Here are some images from CMA-01.

1809572 is certainly the correct rear axle for a 1542X3, and it is also correct for 1531X8 and 1541X8.

Regards,
Colin
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  #44  
Old 05-02-21, 08:51
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Alford View Post
Here are some images from CMA-01.

1809572 is certainly the correct rear axle for a 1542X3, and it is also correct for 1531X8 and 1541X8.
Thanks for that Colin!

And the 1533X2 had a two-speed axle - have you seen this, Charlie?
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  #45  
Old 05-02-21, 12:06
Charlie Down Charlie Down is offline
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Default 2 speed axle confirmation.

Hi Colin and Hanno,
That's a brilliant piece of information, clears up one of the main controversies of the 1533X2 over the years.

Slowly filling the gaps in the specification. Only need to find the bumper brackets and the fuel tank cover for the CMP seats (most LRDG trucks had a metal cover on the fuel tank that raised the rear of the fuel tank frame to allow 2 CMP seats to be fitted, possibly because supplies of bench seats ran out?).

Thank you again. Charlie
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  #46  
Old 07-02-21, 21:32
Dave Ashby Dave Ashby is offline
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Hi Charlie, Iíll be up the workshop this week so will get the bumper bracket details youíre after with some accompanying photos.
Dave
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  #47  
Old 07-02-21, 21:34
Dave Ashby Dave Ashby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Alford View Post
Dave,

Here are some images from CMA-01.

1809572 is certainly the correct rear axle for a 1542X3, and it is also correct for 1531X8 and 1541X8.

Regards,
Colin
Thatís some very useful info Colin, thank you for posting. Little by little the puzzle pieces fit together!

Cheers,
Dave
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  #48  
Old 08-02-21, 10:48
Charlie Down Charlie Down is offline
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Dave ,
That would be great, I can't find anything about them anywhere. I've got period photos that confirm the rough shape, but no details of how they look at the chassis end or what format/shape/design they are where they connect to the bumper. I imagine there's a front plate on the bracket, but how wide, what support/bracing it has, how many holes, are all unknown. Likewise the support rod system, and how that attaches to the bracket, the size and shape of the holes in the panel below the grill, (or maybe in the fenders), and whether the support rods are straight or angle into the mounting brackets.
Thanks for your help!
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  #49  
Old 20-02-21, 07:33
Charlie Down Charlie Down is offline
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Hi Dave,
Sorry to hassle you, but have you had a chance to take the photographs of the bumper brackets and support rods yet? Any dimensions would be great too. Its one of the last pieces of information that I need to finally come up with a accurate description / specification of the 1533x2 truck and its also a very new bit of information, to me anyway!

Charlie
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  #50  
Old 23-02-21, 17:10
Dave Ashby Dave Ashby is offline
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Hi Charlie, pm sent.
Cheers,
Dave
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  #51  
Old 23-02-21, 20:40
Charlie Down Charlie Down is offline
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for for getting the info, unfortunately my PM box is empty.
Cheers

Charlie
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  #52  
Old Yesterday, 17:48
Charlie Down Charlie Down is offline
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Default Bumper Brackets

Dave Ashby has sent me the photos of the bumper brackets and support rods with some dimensions, and asked me to post them here for everyone to see. They are the same as the Brackets on the 1533X2 LRDG truck and I will post them on the appropriate thread for the 1533X2 truck, for those looking specifically at that truck. Note the thinner near vertical rod supporting the bottom of the grill in photos 4 and 5. Thank you Dave.

Hopefully Colin Alford has some drawings of this area in one of his manuals to get more details. Also I'd be really interested in seeing the steering gear information from the Major Assemblies catalogue for the 1542/3 and 1533X2 trucks, hint!
2 more photos in the next post!

Charlie
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BB1.jpg   BB2.jpg   BB3.jpg   BB4.jpg   BB5.jpg  

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  #53  
Old Yesterday, 17:50
Charlie Down Charlie Down is offline
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Default Bumper Brackets part 2

Last 2 images for the brackets.
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BB6.jpg   BB7.jpg  
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