Cold war re-enactor kit

[Stuart Fedak]

I have a cold war CF raincoat and pants set that I wish to put on some water proofing on the inside fabric. The outside of the jacket seems to be somewhat rubberized, but not truly waterproof. The pants seem to just be some nylon type fabric... no rubberized coating. Any recommendations on what can be used to add to the water repellent nature of this CF kit?

Your thoughts?

Stuart

[45jim]

We used to soak the whole thing in liquid waterproof treatment provided for combat boots. Unfortunately, the only thing that happened when wearing this crap was sweating, you were guaranteed to get wet while wearing it - raining or not! We used to leave it folded in our mess tins (also not used) for inspections and use American wet weather gear.

[jeff davis]

In 1982 We Were Issued with the CF Poncho When Deployed for the C.F.E Flyover. RCR 31 Bravo Track Commander Sgt Mcandrews
Driver Cpl Nick name Smoke ,The Poncho was a Much Desired thing to the Reg force Guys
Jeff Davis

[rob love]

If there was an acceptable way to keep rain out of those rain suits, I never found it. The poncho, as mentioned by Jeff was the preferred method of staying dry along with the American rainsuits.

Perhaps if you wanted to make a display of useless/non-working items the CF has issued, you could make the rainsuit the center of the project. Around it you could put things like the Beta light, the $16 plastic watches that often did not work right out of the box, and a package of Macaroni and peas, which was supplied as a Breakfast entree.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Poncho vs rainsuit. I found the former left a waterlogged dripline on my shins. The latter at least had sleeves and measure of watertight sides/bottoms. The 50's oilcloth ones were and are dynamite! There was another style I saw once, but can't describe.

- The 70s US issue rubberized rainsuit was great for breaking the wind on blustery days. But it was waterproof, and heated up inside. Sean Maloney's book on the Brigade in Germany mentions how badly the field clothing was, and how many guys bought/stole US rainsuits, liners and pants just to stay dry.
- The 70s Canadian issue plasticized nylon rainsuit was the opposite. Many guys complain that it let in as much water as it kept out. The QM issued white spray cans of silicone waterproofing to try to get around the porosity. I recall the hood buttoned on.
- The 80s Canadian issue rainsuit was better on all accounts, but suffered from the bad rep' of its predecessor. IIRC, the hood was permanently attached.
- The latest issue Goretex rainsuit is one of the best things the Army ever adopted (from the Air Force).
- I had a fantastic Arid CADPAT rainsuit in Afghanistan that was a fabric and vinyl coating. The QM lady (a civilian contractor) didn't recognize it, but thought it was a very early style that had been reissued roto after roto.

[Scott Bentley]

Heck the American Jacket Liner and Rain Jacket (AKA Poor Mans Gortex) were still in vogue well into the late 90s. I still pack the liner around, as pound for pound its pretty effective snivel kit, although the troops ridicule me for wearing it. Funny how times change.

Stuart, if you don't already have one, the Horse Blanket Poncho Liner is another great item to showcase. I don't know how the CF could take something so nice like the US Poncho Liner and turn it into the most inflexible POS.

[rob love]

Let us not forget the $2 arctic sunglasses in a cloth case that broke no matter how you packed them.

Or the incredible shrinking toques, that if you were not careful they would shrink so small they wouldn't even be of use to the Shuar tribes.

And God couldn't even help you if you were to put some bleach in with the combats.

[Robert Bergeron]

Hey guys ,

Nobody mentionned the rather well named ''funny hats '' we had to wear in the field .

How about the 12 pound rubber boots ( so they seemed when recovered in mud ) now replaced by the Goretex boots. ?

Robert

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Hey guys ,

How about the 12 pound rubber boots ( so they seemed when recovered in mud ) now replaced by the Goretex boots. ?

Robert

We called them "Boots, Rubber, Clumsy". My favourite were the guys who added grenade pin rings to the zippers for extra grip. You usually saw them a few days later with no zippers and the boots secured shut with gun tape

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

I had a fantastic Arid CADPAT rainsuit in Afghanistan that was a fabric and vinyl coating. The QM lady (a civilian contractor) didn't recognize it, but thought it was a very early style that had been reissued roto after roto.

IIRC, we were issued those jackets brand new in Kabul, early 2005. When I returned to Kandahar in 2006 we were issued something similar to the current jacket. The most peculiar part was getting Arid CADPAT LBV's in Kabul. I'm talking the same fishing vests we had in Yugoslavia. Somehow, even with the newer (albeit still crappy) Tactical Vest in the system for a number of years, some bozo in procurement managed resurrect the even worse Load Bearing Vest from the 90s in Arid. There was a collective "WTF?" as we were standing in QM and the Bin Rats brought those out.

[universalgrl]

Don't forget the ham and egg omelets, rusks, and those green pieces of flying junk called griffins.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The US Ranger blanket is dynamite - soft, durable and squishy. The CF issue horse blanket was crap - stiff, never-to-be-used so it never wore out, and crisp. The excuse I heard for the fail was fire retardancy and made in Canada.

BTW Scott, I have a set of US liners for winter pants. Four Yankee folding dollars at some surplus store. I like them a lot! So much I split the outside leg seam and sewed in full length zippers. No need to take off my boots for donning and doffing.

Speaking of Cold War accessories, don't forget the pale yellow Melmac cup, plate and bowl. Either carry them in the gas mask bag, or some form of drawstring bag. No need to replace the KFS. The nesting Canadian set made by Heritage in Perth, ON are as good as any kitchen utensils. The only ones I like better are the set I stole from the German mess hall at Camp Butmir in Sarajevo. A big bowl and a comfortable handle.

Boots, Rubber, Clumsy - when I was a very youthful soldier I had a summer callout in Alert as a construction worker. Every building had a cloakroom inside the double doors. The trick was to spray paint your boots some exotic pattern so they wouldn't get switched. If you had a choice, always take about 2 sizes too big just to keep the zippers from blowing out.

[rob love]

I always liked the rubber overboots. You could wear your running shoes in great comfort inside them. Even in the winter they provided good heat, and don't forget where I am located at before poo-pooing the idea.

Best of all, nobody ever questioned why I would be wearing the rubber overboots, even on some relatively decent days. Compared to continually wearing combat boots for 30 or 40 days straight, they felt like slippers.

Which reminds me, you can add those rubber tent slippers to the useless kit list.

[rob love]

Those are the ground sheets. The design of them, as you have noted, allows them to be coupled up and made into a small hooch.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Those are the ground sheets. The design of them, as you have noted, allows them to be coupled up and made into a small hooch.

If you were lucky, both you and your fire team partner had half-shelters that were the same length. At some point along the way, they either got longer, or shorter; some are nearly a foot longer than others. Made for some additional improv when trying to build a hooch

[maple_leaf_eh]

If the poncho has a hood and metal cylinder-like cord locks, that is a good one to have. It has snaps around the perimeter to make a "hootchie" or improvised shelter. The cadets were issued a smaller one with less functionality, but I remember it had a horrible smell like dog crap on a hot day.

The shelter halves dispensed with any pretense of wearing in the rain. The fabric is lighter, has left and right side zippers, and triangles for door flaps. It is also long enough to actually cover anything. I doubt it is wide enough to sleep inside like a sleeping bag cover. That role goes to the second smartest personal kit ever issued, the Goretex bivvy bag.

On a related topic, my old friend Phil Palmer claims the only waterproof piece of kit he was ever issued, was his steel helmet. He also claimed that the warmest thing he was ever issued, was his desk at defence headquarters.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Wind suits - no one has mentioned them as the Gucci alternative to a rain suit. Before the Army got around to issuing very effective rainsuits, the troops discovered that wearing a Goretex wind suit under their combat, they could move quieter and still get to their pockets.

[rob love]

Terry brought up a point wrt any of the waterproofed stuff from that era. If the conditions were right (or actually wrong) they seemed to develop an aroma quite like puke. I have had that on the ponchos, and especially the sleeping bag valise. It was enough to make you gag.

[rob love]

Summer time was the inner and liner only.

If you were humping it, then it was the air mattress or later the self inflating mattress. If you were mechanized, then a 3" thick foamy (foam with a canvas cover sewn over it) was the order of the day. I still have mine, and coupled with a cot is as comfortable as any mattress I have ever slept on.

Regarding the self inflating mattress, an evening with some soapy water and the patches ensured you did not wake up in the morning with your hip touching the ground through the mattress. Surprising how many holes you would find in them.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The rubber Black Beauty is the ONLY CF air mattress worth sleeping on. The green self-inflating air mattress is the ONLY CF air mattress worth carrying. Not the same, and mutually exclusive.

I don't remember any issue shelter half poles. Some old sweat showed me how to lace about a 10' bungee cord through the grommets to quickly sling the shelter half between two trees or off a vehicle.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

I don't remember any issue shelter half poles. Some old sweat showed me how to lace about a 10' bungee cord through the grommets to quickly sling the shelter half between two trees or off a vehicle.

Yep, there are no issued poles for the shelter halves. Bungie, 5/50 Cord or whatever else you could improv was the order of the day.

The only poles i've ever seen issued to an individual for anything were the 4 wooded dowels to keep your bug net suspended over the camp cot.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

The rubber Black Beauty is the ONLY CF air mattress worth sleeping on. The green self-inflating air mattress is the ONLY CF air mattress worth carrying. Not the same, and mutually exclusive.

I'll add that 90% of my peers long ditched the self inflator in favour of a Ridge Rest or similar aftermarket sleeping mat. Especially if you're hauling it around on your back. Easy to pack, super light weight and is no worst than the self inflator for comfort.

The only time I ever see the Black Beauties come out of storage anymore are for trips to the Arctic. That is where it truly shines (along with the original Thermos and carrier, not that ridiculous canteen shaped one designed to fit in webbing or a tac vest, both items that you don't use in the high arctic...... I digress). The reality is, these things are getting pretty long in the tooth now. I've still got one, but frankly, it doesn't leave the basement anymore.

[Robert Bergeron]

Guys,

Speaking of Black Beauties, i have a story. Back in 1990 or so , i was on a course in Suffield Alberta with the PPCLi.

We were bussed from Curry Barracks in Calgary to Suffield in late afternoon and then trucked into the field during nightime.

At the time , i had learned already the virtue of sleeping whenever you could so i carried around an american green foam bedrest i could just unfold and trow myself one whenever i could to catch up on some sleep.

Anyway, we set up camp in a Combat Team bivouac with the M-113's and the Cougars with our groud sheets zipped up together and suspended on the side of my section M-113. The guys are blowing up their Black Beauties while i am already laying on my american foam mattress. The guys finally lay down on them and i hear air hissing out of all of them. Someone lights up with a red lens on his flashlight and all of a sudden we realise we had set up in the night on a bunch of crazy Suffield low crawling cactus !

Needless to say my friends slept for two weeks directly on hard , sunbaked and cold desert ground and those Black Beauties could never be restored having hundreds of prickholes in them !

Ah those Black Beauties. A good thing there aren't any cactus in the High Arctic !

[Scott Bentley]

There is a pub on Camouflage and Concealment. It is very old and contains all of the hand drawn pictures of how to paint the three color cam pattern to the vehicles of the era. I have a scanned copy of it somewhere.

As far as the poles go, there were/are no standardized "sockets" for them to fit in on vehicles. Having had the pleasure of being a sapper who lived in an M113 Pioneer Dozer (read: thousands of little things for the net to get hooked on), we usually spread a canvas tarp out over the vehicle first and then unrolled the cam net. For the poles, we affixed short sections of PVC pipe to the four corners of the vehicle. Granted this was for a much larger and more complex vehicle.

For the quarter tons we usually just had the nets rolled as flat as possible on the hood and secured with bungy cords. Occasionally they'd get pitched on the rear roof and lashed down, but that usually caused the roof to sag and fill with water. As for the poles, we just wedged them wherever we could, all improvised. For the windows, mirrors, lights and other shiny's, we had sandbags or sheets of hessian. I never (not even once) saw any of those Iltis mirror and windshield rubberized covers while in service, and that was in Petawawa where arguably they should have been.

[maple_leaf_eh]

As Scott posted, camouflage in the CF has always been a crew responsibility. The only bag for cam' nets I ever saw was the clear poly plastic bag it was issued in new from QM. And that was the only time it was ever square again.

The M38A1 mirrors fold, but are really not designed to be folded again and again. However, the licence plates, reflectors, headlights and mirrors. The Sergeant Major's orders before many of our exercises was to tie flaps of sandbags or hessian. We never had many spare canvas tarps. If the tarp wasn't carried or was squeezed under the backseat, if anyone had a spare poncho we'd use that over the interior against the rain.

[rob love]

Ideally the poles were on the ground, and not on the vehicle. Ideally you could drive out of the cam net like a big garage if need be. Seemed like as a mechanic we were the last ones into the hide and would just get the nets set up when the recovery call would come in.

I spent the last 6 years of my career in MLVWs, and usually alone, so I did a lot of camming, and usually with my rifle slung on my back. I hated the little key ring on the BFAs. I also hated the extra hood latches located in the middle of the hood....those went away. By the time I left the RCHA, I was pretty adept at covering an MLVW.

There were canvas bags for stowing the cam poles and spreaders, or they could also be attached together and stowed under the cargo box in the bow stowage area. The nets just stayed up in the roof rack.

Bottoms of the nets, when set up, would be tied to any available trees or onto strings or bungee cords or cargo straps leading to long nails or tent pegs. This method doesn't work so well on pavement.

[Ewen B]

All this talk about black beauties and the green self inflating mattresses remind me on one ex that I was in at Valcartier. We arrived in the rain and they rolled out two tarps for the regiment to sleep in and under. No poles, no bivy bags in those days either. It was a good sleep other than we woke with a thousand pounds of rain sitting on the tarp laying on us. Glad a deuce didn't mistake us for a dirt pile in the rain. The next day it snowed and everything was frozen, and then the next day we were running around in the afternoon with sleeves rolled up. Only in Canada they say...bloody pity. I acquired a few of the black beauties a couple of years ago. Too bad the rubber is all hard and cracked up. I remember my grandfather telling me that he had to sleep on the hard floor at home for almost a year after sleeping on the hard ground in WWI . Wasn't used to a soft bed. E

[R0LFW0ERZ]

Back in the 80's i operated a surplus store near cfb gagetown which was a busy spot.i soon learned there was a need for good raingear as the guys returning from germany were wearing gi raingear.i imported rainjackets-poncoliners-jacketliners-foam sleeping mats by the cases and sold them as fast as i could get it.even the rcr kit shop bought it.i would'nt want to guess the quantity of merchandise that went to the military at gageton.i do not remember the year when they were issued decent raingear but i sold a pile.anybody from gagetown remember?Forgot the cases of Jacket liners another good piece of kit at that time.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi Roberta

I disagree that the Ham Omelet was a bad ration. Good hot or cold, tasty, and filling.

IMHO it was THE best Breakfast menu item when I was hard in my cbt arm trade in the 80s-90s, eating a couple hundred "rats" a year. Sad day when they pulled it from the menu............macaroni and cheese with peas???? Ham Steak and Mustard sauce???Breakfast choices really took a dive after the good ole "Lung in a Bag" was torn from us!!! There was brief revival with the Mushroom Omelette a few years ago but it just wasn't the same.

I concur on most of the thoughts above WRT the other kit items.

Some positives that I discovered over the years: Boots Rubber clumsy with running shoes = Heaven for a Zipperhead. Tent Slippers and Muckluck socks= Ahhhh!! Winter Crewsuit bib overalls with Peerless Parka in the arctic= great combo. American poncho liners. US Army raingear in 1985 combined with their combat coat liner. Tac Hel green leather gloves with the silk liners.

As for bad things, why hasn't anyone mentioned the .50 call BFA and those effin' J bolts? Nearly speared an Van Doo iltis in RV92!! C5 Clasp anyone? Three broken fingernails!! Melmac plates?? All three pieces!! Metal Wash basins?? It continues to this day!!

regards
Darrell

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Darrell Zinck

...

As for bad things, why hasn't anyone mentioned the .50 call BFA and those effin' J bolts? Nearly speared an Van Doo iltis in RV92!! C5 Clasp anyone? Three broken fingernails!! Melmac plates?? All three pieces!! Metal Wash basins?? It continues to this day!!

regards
Darrell

The infamous C5 clasp knife. It was always sharp - because no one could ever open the damn thing! I carried a generic red Swiss Army knife, and one particular exercise it kept me alive. We were issued US canned C-rations (late summer 1978?) and I found the little enclosed US can opener wasn't working well enough for me. The forward stroking push motion of the SAK was better. I still have an aluminum wash basin with the rim folded back. It nests nicely in the bottom of the sleeping bag valise.

Speaking of Gucci kit, show of hands. Who had a green-plastic handle Bundeswehr knife with the aluminum sheath? The ordinary folks weren't issued Russell belt knives and Gerbers didn't exist yet. Or, who didn't have a British Army sweater with the patches? Warmer than the issue Canadian green V-neck sweater. I think mine had a tragic washing machine encounter and came out sized for a 10-yr old boy.