engine identification

[grant fincher]

HI eveyone,
can anyone help identifying the date of manufacture and original use for the sidevalve V8 taken from my F60S cab13? The truck is listed as maufactured in 42, but the engine number is not consistant with that date. The engine number is 6D89113F. Any information will be appreciated.
Grant Fincher

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The '6' would seem to indicate a 1945 Model, with the 'D' indicating Mercury rather than Ford V-8, and the 'F' right hand drive. # 89113 I think is the sequential production number.

The last known {to me} 1944 Model, 1945-built Ford CMP engine was 5G-11449F...all CMPs built in 1945, Chev and Ford were '1944 Models'. However I know of 1945 Model Modified Conventional Pattern trucks with 1945 serials. I know there were rhd Mercury cars and trucks, so could this have been from a 1945 truck? Or Windsor-built new service replacement?

There should be I suggest a casting date on the block..never having actually pursued one on Ford blocks before I cannot confirm for definite. Chevrolet used 'A' to 'J' for January to December, then '1' to 31' for the date and then '0' to '9' for the year. I believe other manufacturers used a similar system, even though Canada often used Day-Month-Year notation rather than Montn-Day-Year as per the US.

Perhaps someone knows otherwise? You might also try Sandra Notarianni, the Ford of Canada Historical Consultant
snotaria@ford.com

(905) 845-2511 Ext. 1562 FAX: (905) 844-1198

[grant fincher]

Thanks for the information David. I am restoring my F60S to match a vehicle of the Australian Army in 1945 and at least the engine is of the same year. I am dissappointed it is not the original motor but I'm sure a lot has happened to this vehicle in the last 60 years or so and I,m happy to have a complete CMP.
Thanks again for your help.
Grant Fincher

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
The '6' would seem to indicate a 1945 Model, with the 'D' indicating Mercury rather than Ford V-8, and the 'F' right hand drive. # 89113 I think is the sequential production number.

The last known {to me} 1944 Model, 1945-built Ford CMP engine was 5G-11449F...all CMPs built in 1945, Chev and Ford were '1944 Models'. However I know of 1945 Model Modified Conventional Pattern trucks with 1945 serials. I know there were rhd Mercury cars and trucks, so could this have been from a 1945 truck? Or Windsor-built new service replacement?

The latest engine No I've seen is 6G27472F. David, are you saying this is an MCP engine?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Tony, one of the intriguing questions remaining unresolved is exactly when did CMP production end? I have seen a letter relating to GM of Canada production and I think it confirms that they stopped around November 1945 at the latest, although my CKD production sheet shows that they stopped in September 1945. Engien production finished in November 1945. However there was a strike at Ford's Windsor September 12 to December 2 1945, and there was a GM US strike November 1945 to March 1946 which extended to Canada and so January to March were wiped out, 1946 production of engines starting in March, although the last 206 units had been completed in November. I suspect that the last GM of C CMPs were the C8A HUPs for British contracts though there may have been some Canadian orders, although we know that there were Canadian orders for MCPs, 1945 Models, that may have explained why there was a continuation of engine production after CMP production ended.
Here is an example although I know of three '45 GMCs as well

1945 MODEL MCP TRUCK CHASSIS 1543X1
SERIAL 5154307537 ENGINE T104,220 BODY 2553 [Stake Body]

which was in a Canadian scrapyard, having clearly been exported to the UK and then shipped back. Note the 1945 Models had a different engine number series from the 1944 Models, and there may have been some overlap in 1945 Calendar Year between CMP engine production and 1945 civilian and MCP production and the new series prevented any clashing.

The highest known (to me) British contract was S/M 6524. However the latest known vehicles so far are:

4844521269 ENGINE # FR4,053,256 ORDER CEB-A-1075 AUGUST 23 1945

Census Numbers M 6230395 to 6230594 S/M 6407:
1C11 STAFF CAR 4844521304 ENGINE # 4,054,457 AUGUST 27 1945
1C11 STAFF CAR 4844521376 AUGUST 30 1945
1C11 STAFF CAR 4844521386 ENGINE # FR4,057,573 AUGUST 31 1945


Turning to Fords, Ford Model C291Q, Serial Number CK-236140, Engine # 5G-420-F to S/M 6389 was built in November 1945. The highest known (to me) Ford contract was for F.60L units to Contract S/M 6537, e.g. Ford F60L/WP was built to contract SM-6537 on 4 September 1945 which has serial number SU-301065 and engine number 5G-11449F. There should logically have been 1945 Model V-8s built as service exchange units and so I could not say whether the unit you have shown was from a CMP or perhaps a rhd civilian-style truck with Mercury engine. I have read however that Willys refused to produce new engines for wartime Jeeps in 1946, and yet there were huge stocks of unused crate engines, Willys and Ford, being sold off by entrepeneurs. The only other analogy I come come up with is that after Dagenham finished straight-six production after the Zephyr/Zodiac Mark III ceased in 1966, Fords contracted with West Yorkshire Foundries to continue producing blocks for exchange engines for years afterward and this was compounded as the Ministry of Defence used the engines in l.c. form for all sorts of purposes and thus required spare parts long after automotive production had ended.