delivery truck

james007 · #1 11-07-07, 21:15

found this photo, does any one know what kind of truck this is? and is it Canadian made or British?

James

cliff · #2 11-07-07, 22:20

1940-41 Ford probably Canadian made.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #3 11-07-07, 22:25

Quote:

A leading aircraftwoman driver at the wheel of a Fordson 15-cwt van at Cardington, Bedfordshire.

cliff · #4 11-07-07, 22:28

David did Fordson also have the 3 bars leading back from the front door? I cannot remember seeing any photos of that feature on Fordsons.

If not my first post stands

Plus it looks to me to be RHD not LHD.

james007 · #5 11-07-07, 22:47

does any one have any photos of said sedan in service?

James

David_Hayward (RIP) · #6 11-07-07, 22:51

May well be right..I agree it's rhd, and I thought it was a R01T van, i.e. one of those diverted from Romanian orders and created out of ambulances. However, they were lhd. My best bet so far is n E98C 15-cwt van, which would be a Fordson, although my i.d. list suggests that the spare was on the left side!

MODEL E98C/E91C 15-CWT. VAN ; TYRES: 6.00 x 16 FRONT
6.50 x 16 H.D. REAR; BODY: STEEL PANEL VAN ON WOOD FRAME

james007 · #7 11-07-07, 22:56

heres a photo of a late 1938's model ford note the three bars runing on the rear panel. plus the front hood looks like the apove photo also.

James

cliff · #8 11-07-07, 23:43

James it is a RHD Ford V8 panel van. The 3 bar moulding along the sides proves it to me as I am sure that only Ford had this detail.

David has said that his ID data on the Fordson states the spare wheel is on the LHS not the RHS as shown. All Ford panels had the wheel on the RHS I believe.

Photos from museum collections often do have wrong captions so I believe the vehicle type should read 'Ford' rather then 'Fordson' on this photo.

cliff · #9 12-07-07, 00:09

Here is a photo of a LHD 1939 Ford panel van. I am unsure of it's source but it is probably the American Memory Bank Data base.

Note the 3 bar strip along the side and no spare mounted on the LHS. The RHD vehicles of this type were the same except for the steering wheel and instrument panel being on the RHS.

Apart from the front sheet metal (mudguards, grill, bonnet etc) being different with yearly model changes the rear bodies remained basicly the same.

the only change I would make to my post about the first photois it may have been made as a RHD for export at a Ford plant in the USA, Dearborn perhaps?.

Mike Kelly · #10 12-07-07, 02:14

Here's one pictured in Melbourne , around 1942 .

The door script reads :

Presented by the Employees of Treadways Four Stores

Treadways was a chain store , selling goods similar to Myers , they had about four stores around the suburbs .

The star logo with ACF = Australian Comforts Fund . An organisation that ran canteens and supplied cigarettes , drinks etc. to the troops . YMCA self explains itself .

What a psycho paint scheme it has !

Mike

cliff · #11 12-07-07, 02:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Kelly
Here's one pictured in Melbourne , around 1942 .

Mike

Mike that one has a custom body on it and I believe the original photo to be a factory Ford built panel van.

james007 · #12 12-07-07, 02:23

if you look at the photo the steering wheel is of to the left of her not directly in front of her, i think it is left hand drive my self.
so they could have been made in the USA ? as all Canadian made vehicles were LHD correct?

James

cliff · #13 12-07-07, 02:25

Quote:

Originally posted by james007
as all Canadian made vehicles were LHD correct?

James

No most Canadian vehicles were RHD and if you look at the dash instrument panel it is on the right hand side. The steering wheel appears to be to the left because the driver is only sitting on the edge of the seat not in her accual driving position.

james007 · #14 12-07-07, 02:30

seen, you are correct i see that now, what i ment earlyer was most Canadian vehicles were rhd. so could it be Canadian made? if so was it made to sell to england or did our army use them also?

James

cliff · #15 12-07-07, 04:52

Quote:

Originally posted by james007
seen, you are correct i see that now, what i ment earlyer was most Canadian vehicles were rhd. so could it be Canadian made? if so was it made to sell to england or did our army use them also?

James

Yes there is a chance that it may be Canadian made but these were also made RHD at Fords USA plants for export so it may have been made there as they did a lot of 1942 Ford 4X2 trucks in the USA RHD for the British/Commonwealth armed Forces.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #16 12-07-07, 08:35

If it is indeed left hand drive then I beluieve it is in fact a converted ambulance, R01T van with the '40 Ford front end.

cliff · #17 12-07-07, 11:37

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
If it is imdeedd left hand d rive then I beluieve it is in fact a converted ambuamce, R01T van with the '40 Ford front end.

David if you read the other posts you will realise it is RHD due to the instrument panel being on the RHS so it is NOT a LHD converted ambulance but more likely to be a factory built Ford panel van.

james007 · #18 12-07-07, 11:40

and not a 1940 but a 1938 ford van.
James

cliff · #19 12-07-07, 11:50

Quote:

Originally posted by james007
and not a 1940 but a 1938 ford van.
James

James as we cannot see the front sheet metal it could be any of the 1938 to 1941 models as they all have the same body type from the firewall back.

What we do know is -

A - it is RHD

B - most likely a factory built Ford Panel Van judging from the side mouldings and the roof line that you can see.

If it is a 1938/39 barrel nose vehicle then it could be an impressed civilian vehicle as I think the Canadian/USA Fords did not get supplied to Britain in large numbers until late 1940. They may, however, have been ordered earlier then late 1940.

The photo in the 1938 Prototype thread you posted is a 1942 model Ford which over here is known as the Jailbar model due to the grill looking like bars on a cell window.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #20 12-07-07, 12:05

Quote:

if you look at the photo the steering wheel is of to the left of her not directly in front of her, i think it is left hand drive my self.

I agree with James that it appears that the wheels is on the left of the driver, and that she is exiting out the right-side passenger's side. I can see with these tired eyes what I believe is the speedo in the centre. The R01T Van was a diverted Romanian Ford order, the Romanian Ford plant being a subsidiary of Ford of Britain, and used a lhd ex-US front end off the 01T. The spare wheel was evidently on the right side as it was a lhd chassis intended for a right-driving country. I am attaching a repro of the 1942 Ford i.d. sheet.

The other possibility is the E98C or 91C, the commercial version of the 91A sedan, which was 15-cwt rated: the E98C had a 4-cylinder 24 hp anfd the 91C a 30 hp V-8, with the '39 I think front end, and according to the illustration accompanying the text, a left-side mounted spare wheel. On checking, WD trucks, back to 1935-6 had right-mounted wheels either on the right door or on the right side of body, probably, but I have to be careful here, because they were US-sourced vehicles assembled in Dagenham.

That's the best I can come up with, under correction of course! The only other candidate, the W0A2 Utility Car, had its spare wheel at the rear, so if there was a van version then the wheel would not be right-mounted.

cliff · #21 12-07-07, 12:53

David if you look at the small part of the roof line above the pretty driver you will see that it has not got the high roof of the vehicle you are saying it is!

The roof line is that of a factory built Ford Panel van and NOT a converted ambulance. The right hand drive factory made panel vans also had the spare mounted on the RHS as per the LHD vehicles. I also disagree with you on the position of both the steering wheel and the dash instrument panel as I owned one of these in NZ a long time back although it was a 1942 model and had the local NZ made wooden framed body on it.

If you look at the driver you can see that she is sitting on the edge of the seat and the RHS of the steering wheel is in line with her left breast so that means the steering wheel must be on the RHS of the cab and then if you look along the bottom of the windscreen you can see the fancy ribbed panel that divided the dash board in half on these models and the instruments are to the Right of it meaning it is a RHD vehicle.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #22 12-07-07, 13:03

Cliff, as I said, under correction...if I am wrong, and clearly I am, then it can only be I suggest a E98C then, or if I am right as the "E" prefix is not there, the 91C panel van. The E98C would be the 4-cylinder, and the 91C obviously the V-8 job, and likely to be US-sourced. Cheers!

cliff · #23 12-07-07, 13:27

the photo below is a LHD 1942, 1 or 2 ton panel van I think but note the two bar moulding compared with the three bar of the original photo which is why I think it is a 1939, 40 or 41 model.

Sorry not sure of the origin of this photo

Noel Burgess · #24 12-07-07, 14:45

I have no knowledge og Ford models etc. so can't comment on that But i've got to say that the original picture is a left hand drive.
Consider the fact that it's (according to other photos posted) got a split windscreen - surely we are only seeing the left half of the screen

Cheers
Noel

David_Hayward (RIP) · #25 12-07-07, 14:58

I'm staying out of this! I still maintain that it looks lhd to me, it seems too obvious to me that the lhd wheel is behind the left split screen, and the lovely Leading aircraftwoman has her left hand on the wheel, strectched out, and she is alighting from the right seat. However, it would be helpful if we can find some more shots from the front. I can't find any similar photos yet to confirm what vehicles they used at Cardington...part of which was of course a Ford assembly depot where they built Jeeps up for example. There must be more at the IWM and I know the guy to contact!

cliff · #26 12-07-07, 22:46

I too have nothing more to say either unless another photo turns up proving me wrong.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #27 13-07-07, 00:03

This is the Station Commander's car, but why civvy rego? Perhaps it's Air Ministry? Anyhow, WAAF Sergeant driver at Cardington. The IWM have two more photos of rhd Fordson R917T 6x4 lorries driven by trainee WAAF drivers but that;s it so far.

Richard Farrant · #28 13-07-07, 00:31

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
[IMG]

This is the Station Commander's car, but why civvy rego? Perhaps it's Air Ministry?

David,

All Army and RAF vehicles before about 1940, carried civil reg. numbers, from the Middlesex licencing office. Army vehicles carried these as well as their census numbers. So this is definitely an RAF vehicle.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #29 13-07-07, 00:34

Thanks Richard, I was aware of that, thanks. I have some WD Middlesex CC regos. However this photo dates to 1942.

The Air Ministry used RMX --- regos in 1939 then PMX --- in 1940. RMX 422 dates to May 1939 it seems..so was this a '39 Ford 91A, and the caption date is wrong?

Richard Farrant · #30 13-07-07, 00:41

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
However this photo dates to 1942.

David,

Perhaps the RAF carried on with civil numbers after the Army went to only census numbers?