New Member - CMP Differences

[James Y]

I have a CMP C15 cab type 13, that has a great body little rust, that I would like to restore. It has the wrong motor (newer) and missing various small parts etc. I can purchase another CMP in Ontario Canada that is a C-HU that has the rear body cut off but has lot of the missing parts that I need. What are the major differences between the two series?

I am located in Edmonton, Alberta, the fright cost to get the CMP from Ontario to Alberta is worth more than the truck so I would like to make sure the $ are wisely spent.

Thx Jim

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Jim

A word of caution before you dump the $$$..... not all CMP looking CMPs are the same.....

Now for more precise information we would need pictures..... a lot of us can't read you know.....

You seem to have acquired a Chevrolet C15.... and if it has 4 wheel drive it is a C15A........ the other interesting truck is probably a HU....P or W or rare A

Heavy Utility....Personnel carrier or Wireless ro ZL for machinery or even Ambulance.

IT IS NOT the best donor of parts for your C15a...... you can find better and cheaper out West by doing some digging and networking..... starting with the MLU crowd...

The C HU from Ontario will only give you a transfer case, seats, and a few other odds an ends has it is built on a different chassis frame, different axles, etc.

I assume you have not had a chance to look at the C HU in Ontario up close.

First important tool to buy.... a good point and shoot digital camera... than start clicking away..... every pictures will be worth in gold in the years to come...... help n describing things.... verifying what you have and what you need.

Out West..... with the patience to look around you can find very good remaining specimen with less rust that Ontario trucks..

So your homework before your next posting..... pictures of what you have ....

some brief mental notes of what you think is missing...... then start looking for Chev engine.... 235 or even better 261 6 cylinder engines of the 1955 to the 1960 era..... don't forget to look at Pontiac car engines as well.... they will all bolt in to your CMP bellhousing with relative ease.....

Good luck ..Looking forward to your next posting with pictures.

Bob C.

[James Y]

It is a 4 wheel drive, the major parts are the smaller items, headlamp buckets engine doghouse, the engine is there but probably seized, appears to be a later series, missing gas tank, tool box and spare wheel of course, next post will be donor vehicle.

[James Y]

This is the Donor truck in Ontario.

Thx J

[Bob Carriere]

Not a bad C15a...... at least you have the box and a fair cab......

Seats seem to be there...... all you need is the bottom pan and tuebing back rest ..... you will osurce the padding later. The engine is a later mid fifty series but do not junk it yet.... even if stuck fast it can donate a lot of parts.... carburator...air cleaner....fan... RH bellhousing.... pulleys...oil pan....generator.....starter.....

You seem to have one RH side fuel tank..... for the immediate future look into getting a 5 gal outboard fuel tank, preferrably in plastic from Canadian tire...

Focus on the power train.... what do you need to get it to run.... brakes.... drive shafts....radiator..... all the shifting control and rods.....

On top of all the things to get is a CMP shop manual.....contact Grant Bowker on the MLU.... he has repro copies.

Now on the Ontario HU ..... things I see that would interchange..... a reasonable wooden steering wheel... $100 if not badly cracked....... a vintage 216 engine with important valve cover...... cover alone is worth $50 if no worm holes exists.

Do not think the engine cover will interchange...... the whole nose piece although similar will not interchange as a straight bolt on...... axles and rims are different .

All seat frames will interchange..... if all that is left are the coil springs grab them for recovering later. Radiator will interchange .....

Both instrument clusters (gauges) are in bad shape.... a fully rebuilt is worth $500 US .......shop around Ebay

Shock absorbers MAY interchange....? but the arms may need to be repaced to fit the C15a.

Headlight buckets will interchange......

Keep in mind that what will NOT interchange may be traded to other HU lovers or sold outright.

On you C15a... try wet sanding you doors just a little at a time with 400 grit..... some more letters numbers will appear...... record them with photos....sand some more different level of paint will reveal more numbers it may allow you to trace back the origine of the truck.

For the tool box....plans do exist to reproduce one.... if you cannot weld now you will have ample opportunity to learn...... take a few night course and get a medium price MIG ...... and practice and practice.

I am not sure if shipping the HU out West is worth what is actually useful to you..... you may want to shop around for another donor C15a closer to you place...... or find a way to come East to cannibalize only the parts you need.

Do a bit of reading on the differences to see if it is worth it.

The Ontario HU has suuferred a familair fate.... most of them were cut off behind the driver in an attempt to make a pick up truck..... sad as the rear sheet metal is now rare to find.

Tell us what your plans are for the restoration of the C15a and some basic info about yourself and what skills/facilities you have.....

...and ask questions...... no limits on that...... lots of people here and around the world will jump in to help you out. NIce to see new faces.



Bob C

PS. The Ontario HU as a beautiful Bow Tie on the radiator grill...... very desirable

[Bob Carriere]

HAd another look at the pictures....... You have a Ford grill...... is it a Ford or a CHev....... do you have a pictures of the front and rear axle????

Normally the Ford axles are split at the center.....while the Chev have a bango type axle with a front conver that is bolted.....

THe dash is a Chev model..... keep in mind that a lot of Chev Ford parts are interchangeable except the Ford V8 and tranny and the Chev 6 cyl.

The fun has just started.

Bob C

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

HAd another look at the pictures....... You have a Ford grill...... is it a Ford or a CHev....... do you have a pictures of the front and rear axle????

Normally the Ford axles are split at the center.....while the Chev have a bango type axle with a front conver that is bolted.....

THe dash is a Chev model..... keep in mind that a lot of Chev Ford parts are interchangeable except the Ford V8 and tranny and the Chev 6 cyl.

The fun has just started.

Bob C

I'm pretty certain he's got a Chev there. That Ford grille could sure confuse you though.

I'm with Bob. There so little interchangeable between the HU and other CMP Chevs that finding local parts instead of dragging a whole truck all that way makes more sense.

[James Y]

The grill has the wrong badge, I live in Edmonton and have been around the army vehicle collector seen since a kid some 40 years now, my dAd and myself have had or still have a military vehicles for a long time but this is the first ww2 vehicle project.
Based on the input I am going to pass on the Ontario truck, but if someone has something closer to Alberta let me know.

Will post more info.
Jim

[Lynn Eades]

Does the steering wheel interchange?
Are you able to buy bits from the donor truck without taking the whole thing?
I thought the mesh of the grill was different between the two makes?

[Bob Carriere]

Barby grills ......

..........grills as in drinking bar grill..none of which Lynn would be familiar with.


Then you have the pure Chevrolet grill which is made of expanded steel...holes looks like diamond when the steel is stretched.

The you have real genuine Furd grills...... woven of steel mesh...... holes are some what smaller ( that is why they all overheat) and squarish....

Then you have parts mixed between Furd and Chevy either at the factory due to parts shortage or Ford CMPs that want to look good !!!!.

Bob C

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

The you have real genuine Furd grills...... woven of steel mesh...... holes are some what smaller ( that is why they all overheat)


Bob C

So that's it!!! And here I was thinking it was something to do with Furds being poorly designed and cranky.

(Chev CMP's never overheat)

(hey, wait a minute. Carriers are Fords. They overheat but don't have the same small-holed mesh. Maybe it is because Fords are poorly designed and cranky)

[cletrac (RIP)]

When Ford was designing the flathead Henry told the engineers that the motor had to make heat so the heater would be more efficient. Well, running the exhaust ports through the block sure solved that problem!

[Lynn Eades]

Considering Henry's original design never included water or oil pumps, I think it turned out not bad.
Thanks Bob for the laugh.
I think of Barby (or the like) quite often (they say every 7 seconds, for the average bloke)
and the grill doesn't go much longer than that either. (what is for morning tea?)

[Joe Lorenzino]

Given your location, it might be worth checking with the Reynolds collection in Wetaskiwin to see if there is anything left that might have parts you need.

There is also an auction sale coming up for the Alaska Highway Construction Museum that is very close to you and has some CMP's on it.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Jim,

Welcome again, as you can see posting these sort of questions get a prompt response on MLU

Regards,
Hanno

[gary_bath_jr]

Hey Joe

I have bad news for you, 1) all the CMP's from Reynolds have been sold, the only ones left are being donated to the larger museum down the road from him, 2) the CMP's at the AH Museum are both Cab 11 or 12's, I have to go past it when I go to Edmonton and have stopped several times to take pics and have a look.

Now I am not saying that I would pass up the trucks from the museum, I am just saying that they would not work as donor vehicles for the Cab 13 that James has.

Gary

[James Y]

So taking advise from the expert forum members here, thank-you I passed on the Ontario truck. Instead a truck popped up on Kijiji in Vancouver, went on the weekend and picked it up.

The family was selling the truck unfortunately the owner has passed away.

It is a 1942 Ford, he had rebuilt the drivetrain and it appears the running gear is in excellent condition. this truck is very complete, box is rusty but I will use the box from the Chev Alberta truck.

I would post pictures but i am travelling and Ipad will not work to post pictures, so they wll have to wait, unless someone can tell me how. In the meantime a couple of questions for the experts.


Are front fenders universal on Cab 13's?, the radiator will need to be recored so any advise on the rad will be most helpfull. Missing the toolbox and tire carrier, so will need to get one made, also details on the storage boxes under the box would also be most helpfull. Does anyone make reproduction seats, box canvas and the weather flaps around the doors and windows, aslo window rubbers etc.

Thx Jim

[Bob Carriere]

HI Jim

Yes pictures when you can....... remember some of us can't read toooo good.

Fenders....... yes they should interchange between all cab 13..... but not the HUP even though they seem the same.

On the radiator..... save the top and bottom box of your best radiator and have a new 3 row core installed..... it will cost you near $400 but that is cheap insurance for the engine and peace of mind.

Tool box can be reproduced... it will provide you with good welding practice plans or at least drawings are floating around on MLU.

Spare tire bracket...... you may have to find and buy a whole truck to get those..... they can be replicated ....... again take you time and look around.

The small storage boxes underneath the cargo box are easily reproduced and measurements should be on MLU or guys will help you out.

Seat..... do you mean the frame or the seat covers??

Seat frames have to be hunted down..... canvass covers may still be available from Dirk in Holland or Brian Ashbury...... one day some one will start reproducing them but it has not happened yet.

Canvass cover for the cargo box...... some were made a few years ago by a firm near London Ontario..... they were done as a special one time order and we had to get enough buyers to make it worth there while...... amybe it is time again to canvass MLU members to see how many are prepared to pay close to $500 for each unit prepaid presold.

Weather flaps around the windows..... still some NOS floating around very hard to get..... best bet is to borrow a set and see if you can find a heavy tarp place to do it for you.

The BIG problem in all the canvass item is that the material is all done overseas and a local Canadian tarp shop has to order a minimum amount of canvass for the specific weigth and OD color...... so if he needs to buy 500 yards minimum and use only 10 yards for your order he is stuck with the rest.

Now on your cab 13 you should have a metal skelton frame that will hold some form of clear plastic...... you need to find those frame off other members or parts trucks. Have a look at Phil Waterman's site he has dimensions for these door frames.

Whatever you decide to install as side windows they will not seal, you will get wet and you will get cold..... but your a Canadian Hey !!!!

Bob C

[gary_bath_jr]

Hey Jim and Bob

I have been able to source green canvas and will be making my own Seat covers as well as all other canvas parts as you are correct they are very hard to find and there is no one in Canada making them. For the canvas tarps, (box cover) I need measurements or one that I can take apart to get exact measurements from.

The first set of Canvas seats I make will be going to George in Northern AB as he has given me a seat cushion to reproduce, the ones he and I have are the thinner ones that just have Horsehair cushions and no springs.

Jim, if you need your Instrument panel rebuilt I will be able to do it for you, I am attaching photo's of mine, I was fortunate enough to get a panel from Phil Waterman to finish mine as these are very hard to find.

Gary

These are the before pictures.

[gary_bath_jr]

Here are the after pictures. The glass has been repaired since these photo's were taken, I can post some more as soon as I get everything done.

Gary

[Lynn Eades]

The speedo's are very optimistic. Is that Chevs way of trying to look better than a Ford