Flail Tanks

[John Ganton]

I watched a TV program about D-day that told how well Flail Tanks were at clearing mines. Is this true or just "Best British Bullshit"? If they work why aren't they in use clearing the many leftover minefields in the world?

[phoenix]

cost, complexity and more damaging mines nowadays may be the answer. Rarity of flail tanks may also hold part of the key

A good point though, it would be an ideal solution although the OH&S bunnies would have a heart attack LOL

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by John Ganton

If they work why aren't they in use clearing the many leftover minefields in the world?

They are - see http://www.landmineclearance.com/about.asp

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

We also use mine plows extensively on the front of tanks. Google "mine plow" for tons of information...

[pand65au]

as they found out in ww2. flails are good for clearing most mines in a defined cleared area. but mines are not always laid in a farm paddock or a beach / sandy areas. so to clear a forrest or jungle you may have to clear the trees first. also when detonated the mines leave a big hole which could be another obsticial for any vehicle personel following and can even disloge / move or even hide other mines in the general area.

[Brian O'Donoghue]

While I agree that flails are not used by the military, the old maxim of speed is the key. Flails are a slow process and the enmey will be watching! At the end of WW2 the simple counter for the Sherman Crab was thus: Bury one large aerial bomb/sea mine add one anti-tank mine as a fuse:
Flail ground, Flail detonates mine, mine detonates big bomb, big bomb destroys Flail tank!

Mine ploughs simply push the offending item out of the way for disposal at a later date, of course you can always use explosive hose! Lots of fun but not in built up areas!

The Aardvark is still in use and is a very good system it will clear many double impulse mines, the Chuchill Toad now resident in the Littlefield Collection was the post war design to counter bigger mines but it never really was a success.

However all said and done the flail is an effective system, and was a veritable war winner, the main problem was the sheer lack of them.
If you want to know more about the Flail there is an Osprey title about the 'Sheman Crab' but is really a short history of the Flail.

I hope this helps anyone researching Sapper equipment.

Brian
ex-Sapper

[John Ganton]

Thanks Brian
I wasn't thinking of military use as much as clearing leftover minefields. From time to time I see newsclips of hero types in third world countries using probes to clear farmland and pathways by hand. I get frightened just watching the TV!

[Brian O'Donoghue]

Yes I completley agree Aardvaark is an ideal solution to de-mining. I've done it in Bosnia and we found anti-tank mines with AP mines as fuses!

Yes I've seen the TV things and I always think "good luck mate" keep your ears covered! I guess it's all down to cost...mind you have you seen those giant rats on TV? No I don't mean the ones in goverment......

Regards

Brian

[cletrac (RIP)]

Of course you could always do it this way! These Aussies rigged up quite the contraption here.

[Andrew Morrison]

Don't know what happened to it however in about 2000 there was an airship operating in mine clearance. It was fitted with radars and GPS that could map mine fields from the air.

Reason for using the airship was that it could stay up for a long time, was stable and could move slowly.

Once you knew where the mines were the rest of the area could be opened back up as accurate maps were produced as part of the process. One of the problems was that mines stopped use of all areas until the slow clearance process was completed. This was to then allow the clearance process to be directed to where it was needed.

[sapper740]

33 billion - Cost in U.S. dollars to remove every mine in the world, if no others are planted
250 million - Stockpiled landmines worldwide
110 million - Landmines in the ground worldwide
2.5 million - New landmines laid each year
1 million - People killed or maimed by anti-personnel mines since 1975
100,000 - Americans killed or injured by landmines in the 1900s
26,000 - People killed or maimed annually by landmines
1,000 - Cost in U.S. dollars to remove one landmine
350 - Minimum number of different types of landmines
70 - Number of people killed or injured daily by landmines
33 - Percent of U.S. casualties caused by landmines during the Vietnam War
3 - Cost in U.S. dollars of a cheap landmine


Source: OneWorld International, International Campaign to Ban Landmines

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Brian O'Donoghue

Mine ploughs simply push the offending item out of the way for disposal at a later date, of course you can always use explosive hose! Lots of fun but not in built up areas!

One of the shortcomings of mine ploughs is that most of the mines are simply pushed out of the path of the vehicle into berms where they lay, unexploded. The mine plough creates a safe path through the mine field for the attacking force but leaves the vast majority of the mines untouched, waiting for some careless local to stumble onto. When I was in the Golan Heights, a Syrian shepherd stumbled onto an anti-personnel mine in the AOS and blew his foot off. The AusBatt Engineers went in to rescue him...a very slow and labourious process while he was screaming in pain...while we Canadians provided security and Medical personnel. Unexploded mines in unmarked minefields are a huge problem around the world and attempts are ongoing to provide both high and low tech solutions to countries with little or no funds for de-mining. A mine detector that doesn't need batteries has been trialed in Africa, the sweeping motion of the detector head generates power from a rotating assembly within to power the unit, although, of course it has two major shortcomings in that it doesn't detect non-metallic mines and fatigue soon sets in from the force to keep the unit generating sufficient power. Another recent invention is the Berm Processing Assembly which is a towed piece of kit that shakes unexploded mines from the berms left by mine ploughs and deposits them on the ground for later disposal.

CHIMO! Derek.

[Gunner]

At staff college many eons ago, flail tanks were called up to clear refugees from a critical route. It was a map exercise but the student argued, with tongue in cheek, that the sight of the flail tanks coming down the road would cause the refugees to clear the route voluntarily by dispersing rapidly to the ditches and fields.

The DS (Directing Staff) carefully considered the student's argument and allowed the "play". The DS' limitations notwithstanding, the route was 'cleared' and my, I mean: the syndicate was the only one to successfully move its column up the route that day!

I don't understand the whispers of "bloodthirsty bast*rd" that permeated the Mess that evening!!!