T17E2 Staghound AA

kevinT · #1 20-12-07, 20:13

Looking for info on the Fraser - Nash turret and the machine gun arrangement. Did the machine guns have the aircraft type barrels or were they the standard M2 type. I am having trouble finding any info or photos.
Thanks for any help or advice.

Cheers
Kevin

marco · #2 21-12-07, 21:29

Hello Kevin,

To me they look like the M2 heavy barrel type.

The guns are fed from the centre of the turret.
According to the Chevrolet Product Notes, the guns were delivered uninstalled with the vehicle and were installed by (I think) Ordnance personel.
A gun adapter kit was also packed in the vehicle.
This kit was used to modify the left gun from left hand feed to right hand feed.

Best regards,

Marco

marco · #3 21-12-07, 21:30

And another photo.

Please have a look at this site:

http://svsm.org/gallery/staghoundaa

Nick Bullock · #4 22-12-07, 12:08

Hi kevin
I believe I have a manual for this turret over in the shed, I can copy some bits for you if needed. If you can wait until the fuss dies down a bit, I'll have a look for you. I have to build some LEGO trucks and play with train sets first !!!!
kind regards
nick

Wayne McGee · #5 22-12-07, 14:17

Machine guns in this application would have to be HB (Heavy Barrel) since .50 Cals mounted in aircraft rely upon airflow for cooling.
As to left/right feeding, every .50 Cal is capable of the conversion, and it is a relatively simple fix, however, it is a job for an armourer. On the surface, I would'nt have thought that Chevrolet would have provided weapons parts for the conversion.
Hope this helps.

Cheers

kevinT · #6 22-12-07, 18:21

Marco,

Thank you the photos will be most helpful.

Nick,

Yes please any turret info will be useful.

I have the Bronco Staghound kit and the Italeri one on the way but I want to convert one using the Accurate Armour T17E2 kit. Any additional turret photos and info will be a great help.
Ah! Lego bricks and train sets. I remember them well.

Cheers
Kevin

marco · #7 22-12-07, 21:03

Hello all,

I scanned some photo's from the parts manual.
Hereby a top view.

Note the WS19 A-antenna at the front right.

A more detailed view.

Marco

marco · #8 22-12-07, 21:10

And a rear view from the turret.

Sorry for the burned edges but this manual only just survived one of the fires at Chris Wilkinson's place in the early 90's.
Makes it easy to scan though...

For Nick: I would be interested to know if your manual is a Chilwell catalogue or an American publication.

Best regards,

Marco

Nick Bullock · #9 22-12-07, 23:43

Hi Marco

From memory its a US TM9 specifically for the turret, could be the same one you listed, not seen mine for a while

regards

nick

Nick Bullock · #10 22-12-07, 23:44

not a parts book but a user handbook TM9, what a dope I am... but US any way
regards
nick

servicepub (RIP) · #11 23-12-07, 00:04

This was the only photo that I could find.

It appears in

kevinT · #12 23-12-07, 01:12

Marco,

Thanks for the photos they will be a great help.

In action photos of any sort seem to be very few and far between although I have a vague memory of a photo of one pulled up on the curb infront of some shops / hotel "somewhere in Europe" but cannot for the live of me think where I have seen the photo.

Cheers
Kevin

marco · #13 23-12-07, 12:54

Kevin,

The only photo's I have from T17E2 in service in western Europe show a couple of E2's used by the Belgium Gendarmerie (Military Police) in the winter 1944-1945.

12th Manitoba Dragoons had a couple of E2's in RHQ which were replaced with E3's in late April 1945.
No photograpic evidence from the E2's however.

Nick: what is the number of the TM?
I nevere heard of a TM9 specially for the E2 turret.

Best regards and a Merry Christmas,

Marco

marco · #14 23-12-07, 12:57

That hat won't fit once inside the car....

kevinT · #15 23-12-07, 13:42

Hi Marco,

Great photos thank you. Where did you find them? Is it from an online source? I would love to get those WD serials a bit clearer.

Cheers
Kevin

marco · #16 23-12-07, 16:26

Hi Kevin,

I found another photo.
The registration number seems to be F 236071.

The Belgium photo's I found on the following site:

http://www.cegesoma.be/phocat/phocatN.htm

I tried to find them again on this database but I couldn't as it is really huge.

Marco

marco · #17 23-12-07, 16:42

And another one from the cegesoma website also showing the first three digits being "236".

According to a copy from contract S/M1263 the WD No's allotted to T17E1 were:

F116215 - 117214 = 1000 cars
F214038 - 214237 = 200 cars
F214238 - 214281 = 44 cars
F215038 - 215337 = 300 cars
F215338 - 215637 = 300 cars
F225284 - 225783 = 500 cars
F235262 - 235761 = 500 cars.
In total 2844 cars.

There are also mentioned some conversions being:
20 Command Cars,
20 Control Cars,
3 A.A.,
40 Rear Link
? Signal Cars
6 Bantu

The document also states that the range F214238 - 214281 originally was allotted to armored car T17.

Marco

kevinT · #18 23-12-07, 18:23

Hi Marco,

F236071 looks to be from the Guards Armoured Division. Not too sure about the AoS though. It doesn't look like 2nd Household Cavalry Regiment their Armoured Car Regiment only other I can think of off the top of my head is from RASC but lower part looks too light to be red over green.

What search method do you use. As you say the database is huge. I am having trouble finding my way around.

Cheers
Kevin

Mark W. Tonner · #19 23-12-07, 19:51

... photos of the E2: -

marco · #20 23-12-07, 20:24

Hi Mark,

Thanks for posting these pics.
This E2 is one of the prototypes with angular turret.
It also seems to be converted from a T17E1 by looking at the bolted engine covers.
Even early E2's had hinged engine covers.

Kevin:

There is no search option on the cegesoma site.
The only thing you can do is browsing through the endless lists of descriptions in Dutch and French language.

But I found the photo's again!
If this link

http://www.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/plsp...l/opac_dsc.htm

doesn't work, browse to the "O" section and go to
"Overdracht van pantserwagens aan de Belgische rijkswacht"

It shows the handing over of several E2's to the Belgium Rijkswacht in October 1944.
These vehicles might well be ex Guards Armoured Division or Household Cavalry.
Maybe you recognize some of the (British?) officers shown.

By the way: the Household Cavalry liberated my hometown.
This event was recorded on film.

Marco

Nick Bullock · #21 23-12-07, 20:44

Hi Fellas
I was trying to resist going to the shed, but just had to go and find this book. Its not a TM9 though it looks like a TM9, the title is 'supplement to TM9-741, operators and maintenance manual for Anti Aircraft turretted Armoured Car T17E2

part one introduction
part two modifications to M17E1
part three operating instructions and maintenance
part four Ordnance maintenance

manual prepared by Chevrolet motor division november 43

cover over stamped with chilwell reference 72/619

This manual came to me a good few years ago with a number of TM9 manuals from the reference collection of a Birmingham motor dealer that had presumably traded in military vehicles and parts. Company name is A B Fletcher, Dartmouth Street, Ashted, Birmingham

hope this helps, now that lego...

kind regards

nick

kevinT · #22 23-12-07, 20:59

Hi Marco,

I have found an English search option, to a degree anyway.
If you go to

http://www.cegesoma.be

There is a language option in the top right hand corner. I am still trying to get my head around this though as not all photos are selected.

Cheers
Kevin

marco · #23 23-12-07, 22:01

Hellow all,

I found the search option but I also have to find out how/if it works....

Nick:
Thanks for going into the shed and finding the manual!
Would it be possible to obtain a copy of this manual?

Off course after the Lego business!

Best regards,

Marco

Nick Bullock · #24 27-12-07, 19:08

Hi marco, Kevin

The LEGO business is done!

PM me with a postal address and I'll sort you out a copy of the book, its very tightly bound but will do the best I can

kind regards

nick

marco · #25 29-12-07, 16:35

Only just found this photo:
Staghound AA from the Royal Canadian Dragoons.
Leeuwarden, Holland, April 15th 1945.

Source:

http://www.beeldbankleeuwarden.nl/

Marco

Hanno Spoelstra · #26 15-03-08, 22:46

Here's another T17E2, pictured near Suameer, Holland, April 1945. Pic courtesy of Wim Snippenberg, Keep Them Rolling.

Wim is interested in the meaning of the "6 in the diamond" on the glacis plate. Who can shed a light?

Thanks,
Hanno

marco · #27 16-03-08, 13:07

Hi Hanno,

The number inside the diamond is a vehicle number within the (in this case Headquarters) squadron.

To get a more exact picture about the application of vehicle numbers within the Canadian Armored Car Regiments (12MD and RCD), it is neccessary to explain some more details.
If this is of interest to you I'll give it a try.

Best regards,

Marco

Hanno Spoelstra · #28 21-03-08, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco

The number inside the diamond is a vehicle number within the (in this case Headquarters) squadron.

To get a more exact picture about the application of vehicle numbers within the Canadian Armored Car Regiments (12MD and RCD), it is neccessary to explain some more details.
If this is of interest to you I'll give it a try.

Hi Marco,

Thanks for your reply. I will direct Wim to this thread, if he has an interest he will make himself heard I'm sure.

Hanno

Hanno Spoelstra · #29 21-03-08, 22:37

There are four survivors of this type to be found in India: http://relics.warbirds.in/main.php?g2_itemId=479

Hanno Spoelstra · #30 23-07-09, 17:05

I found a picture of another survivor in Saraburi, Thailand:

Source: http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/b...ford/Thailand/

That Vickers AA Carrier present there is even rarer than the T17E2, by the way. . .

Drool and dream away!

Hanno