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Old 05-07-16, 02:25
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Default Wire-3 Fitted For Wireless Box details

Id like to start a thread on the Wire-3 Fitted For Wireless box in the hopes of documenting and figuring out the equipment and layout of it all. First up is a number of wartime pictures courtesy of Service Publications.

Of note in these pictures is the mounting of a 20' Antenna mast to the right side of the cab just to the rear of the driver door. There is also two 34' Antenna masts stored on the front panel of the box. Im not too sure on how they are secured in place on the box. Ive read that the spring rifle mounting clips were used.

In the first picture one can just make out a white headset/mic hanger bracket on the inside of the cab behind the passenger seat. Furthermore (can't find any pictures) the parts manual lists a dome light for the cab as well as the map light mounted on the dash.

Another thing to note is the cover for the chorehorse generator on the left side cab step. This has been covered in another thread but not fully answered.

Lastly, the two A & B antenna mounts on the box roof. Not the brush gaurd. Also does anyone have any pictures on the type of mount used for the right side one? I havent seen what appears to be a plate mounted paralle too but above the canvas roof.
Attached Thumbnails
01.JPG   02.jpg   03.JPG   04.JPG  
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Old 05-07-16, 02:40
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Now we see the same truck with the canvas cover rolled up showing off the unique FFW box framework. The idea with the substantial framework was similar to the early C8/F8 wireless trucks, whereas you could remove the framework and setup a covered ground station for the wireless set.

Of note in the first picture. On the cab rear wall is a line of 3 bolts/screws. One is on the upper wall portion and two are on the lower portion. At this time the function of these is unknown. There is also two other bolt/screws on the upper wall right on the curve of the wall. Again their function is unknown to me. As per other posting on MLU there appears to have been a buzer mounted on the cab wall. Along with a headset/mic hanger. The parts manual makes mention of a different numbered rifle mount for FFW trucks to be used on the left side. As far as I know there is no further information.

Moving onto the box.
You can make out the C5 charging board mounted at the front of the box in the first picture. I beleive it is mounted to the wooden plank that runs along the top edge of the box but is attached to the canvas framework. On my original box (pictures to follow) there is an oval hole cut in the floor almost directly inbetween the charging board and where the radio table would go. To me this hole makes sense for the cableing from the chorehorse to the charging board and onto the radio batteries.

Also of note is the wooden boards that run horiziontaly along the length of the top edge of the box. These are secured to the canvas frame work with a number of brackets. The ones along the left and right side have 4 footman loopes while the front one has only 2. On both the right and left boards there are two sets of holes towards the front of the box. These are 5" apart. In the pictures it is clear something is mounted to them as the holes have bolts in them. Im not sure if there would have been various wireless headset junction boxes mounted or not.

One can also make out the three sets of spring rifle clips. Two are on the left side and one on the right side.
Attached Thumbnails
05.jpg   06.jpg   07.jpg  
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Old 05-07-16, 03:51
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Onto the inside of the box.

The wire-3 FFW box featured a WS19 set and its ancilliary equipment. There were three operator seats mounted in the back. A C5 charging board mounted at the front on the left. Two headset/mic hangers at the front hanging from the front canvas framework. On each side of the box was three storage containers. One was the same size width and depth as the wheel well and had a height up the top metal edge of the box (not the wood board) Both the right and left side ones had a door that hinged down using three hinges. The next storage box was mounted to the floor of the Wire-3 box in the area between the wheel well and the tailgate. It was the width of the wheel well and the height of the metal edge of the box. They both had a door that opened to the outside of the Wire-3 box. The right side box also has a headset/mic hanger mounted to it. The last two boxes covered the other two boxes and had a height approximately half way between the top metal edge of the wire-3 box and the first horizontal canvas frame support. Both boxes had a canvas top. The right side box had a hinged side that would drop down. The left side one, although behind the artillery plotting board, doesnt appear to have any hinges and would suggest a simple canvas top. It is beleived these two boxes were for storage of the crew's kit.

On the left side there also appears to be a folding table and one dome light is visible. Im not sure if this was a one off design but the wiring in spots is simply taped.

Lastly is the wireless table. This I am told is an all metal design based ont eh British FFW table. It has a pull out drawer with a reversed sloped door and a small note table.

The 5th picture is a bit of an oddity. It is the same truck but the layout is slightly different then the rest of the pictures. The big difference is the seat layout with one up front and two at the back. There is also an 11set charging board at the front left. The truck also has the doubled up 2 gallon carriers. Also the truck has 2 artillery plotting boards.
Attached Thumbnails
08.JPG   09.JPG   10.JPG   11.jpg   12.JPG  

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Last edited by Jordan Baker; 05-07-16 at 05:05.
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Old 05-07-16, 04:14
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
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I think with some creative scaling you could do a pretty accurate version, pending real dimensions of course.

Two questions: what are the round wheels and chains on the wireless table for? What is the box with the web handle to the right of the wireless table on the bottom 'test' pic. It almost looks like a 58 set but is a smidge too large I think.
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Old 05-07-16, 04:30
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Now for some photos of an original Wire3 box. This box is a model 2J4. This pattern of box was originaly a knockdown style that was welded together. It featured a 1 gallon POL can holder on the back left side and two 5 gallon jerry can holders on the front corners. This box did come with the 1 gallon POL holder and I have managed to save it.

More photos will be coming over the next week as I document the individual brackets.
Attached Thumbnails
box02.jpg   box03.jpg   box04.jpg   box05.jpg   box06.jpg  

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Old 05-07-16, 04:59
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Quote:
Two questions: what are the round wheels and chains on the wireless table for? What is the box with the web handle to the right of the wireless table on the bottom 'test' pic. It almost looks like a 58 set but is a smidge too large I think.
Ive got no idea on what the round wheels/chains are for on the wireless table.

As for the other item. I believe it is two different items stacked together. The left one I think is a folding table with a handle to carry located on one side. im not sure what the other item might be. I can see the securing strap is attached to a footman loop.
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Old 05-07-16, 05:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Ive got no idea on what the round wheels/chains are for on the wireless table.

As for the other item. I believe it is two different items stacked together. The left one I think is a folding table with a handle to carry located on one side. im not sure what the other item might be. I can see the securing strap is attached to a footman loop.
The wheels were for adjustable slide out side sections. at one time i had a photo of an original table showing this feature which I snagged of another forum. I tried looking for it before when Jordan and I started communicating about the wire 3 trucks but for the life of me can't locate it anymore.
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Old 05-07-16, 05:43
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Link for the chorehorse mount discussion.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24770
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Old 05-07-16, 06:08
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Some drawings I have done of the framework and associated parts.
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drawing01.JPG   drawing02.JPG   drawing03.JPG   drawing04.JPG  
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Old 05-07-16, 15:06
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Ive got no idea on what the round wheels/chains are for on the wireless table.

As for the other item. I believe it is two different items stacked together. The left one I think is a folding table with a handle to carry located on one side. im not sure what the other item might be. I can see the securing strap is attached to a footman loop.
I think it's the same folding table, just stowed in a different position. The LHS has what appears to be a large map case or plotting table in a webbing case.

The charging switchboard is the standard No.5 (or C5) from what I can see.

The right hand aerial mounting is for the older aerial base (No.2?) used with WS11 - the "cage" is the anchor point for the big spring.

Chris.
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Old 10-07-16, 16:31
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Jordan,

Fantastic find and great to see the way you are documenting it

Thanks,
Hanno
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Old 19-05-17, 21:42
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I have started in on reproducing the wireless table as fitted to the Wire-3. One thing I am trying to figure out is the purpose of the tray at the bottom of the table. I initially thought it was for one or two batteries but I can't figure out how they would sit in it.

The tray measures 9-1/4" wide by 21" long. The 4 studs on the angle iron? What would they be for. How would a battery/batteries sit and be secured. Did the 4 studs originally have a threaded rod on them with a wing nut?
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Old 20-05-17, 03:19
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
I have started in on reproducing the wireless table as fitted to the Wire-3. One thing I am trying to figure out is the purpose of the tray at the bottom of the table. I initially thought it was for one or two batteries but I can't figure out how they would sit in it.

The tray measures 9-1/4" wide by 21" long. The 4 studs on the angle iron? What would they be for. How would a battery/batteries sit and be secured. Did the 4 studs originally have a threaded rod on them with a wing nut?
Batteries make some sense, but the typical 100-125 A.H. ones are in wooden boxes with bases of 15-1/2" by 7-1/2" so two would fit, though not very well and typically wireless trucks used two pairs (one pair to power the radio while the other pair was being charged). Alternatively two pairs of a different sized batteries would fit, though why a WIRE-3 would use a different size is unclear when contemporary WIRE-5 and HUW's used 100-125 A.H. ones.

Some questions: are there terminal strips in front of the table on the inside forward face of the cargo box that would suggest batteries were stowed under the table? Do you know where else in the box batteries would be if not under the table? Was there a No.5 Charging panel and, if so, where?
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Old 20-05-17, 05:05
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Hi Bruce.

Thanks for the reply and giving some insight.

With your battery measurments I'm not sure two would fit on that try on the floor. It has that central rib and two pieces of angle iron on the end of it. I'm still scratching my head on what it could be for.

There was a C5 charging board mounted inside the truck. In post number 3, photo 2 you can see it along the front panel of the box mounted just to the left of the ws19. Also on the floor of the box is an oval hole. This was for the power cables from the Chorehorse to feed up to the charging board. In this picture you can see the hole in the floor just to the left of the table.

As for the terminal strips. I'd assume the truck would have some. I have my thoughts that they might be mounted on the wooden boards that are attached to the top bows. The two boards running along the sides have two sets of holes. In the pictures in the first couple of posts you can see two sets of two holes and there is definitely something mounted in them. What would be the length of the terminal strips?
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Old 20-05-17, 15:35
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Hi Bruce.

Thanks for the reply and giving some insight.

With your battery measurments I'm not sure two would fit on that try on the floor. It has that central rib and two pieces of angle iron on the end of it. I'm still scratching my head on what it could be for.

There was a C5 charging board mounted inside the truck. In post number 3, photo 2 you can see it along the front panel of the box mounted just to the left of the ws19. Also on the floor of the box is an oval hole. This was for the power cables from the Chorehorse to feed up to the charging board. In this picture you can see the hole in the floor just to the left of the table.

As for the terminal strips. I'd assume the truck would have some. I have my thoughts that they might be mounted on the wooden boards that are attached to the top bows. The two boards running along the sides have two sets of holes. In the pictures in the first couple of posts you can see two sets of two holes and there is definitely something mounted in them. What would be the length of the terminal strips?
Ah yes, I see the No.5 panel. It feeds the batteries so its location suggests they were up front near the panel and therefore also near the table. Do you know, or have evidence from holes, where the batteries on a WIRE-3 went? For comparison, the WIRE-5 had two pairs on the right side beside the wireless operator with the No.5 panel and terminal strips right above them. The HUW had a similar 2 pair battery arrangement under the wireless table centrally located immediately behind the cab/rear body partition. The No.5 panel was hung on the underside of the table and the terminal strips were on the rear face of the body partition (ie. right above the batteries and just below the No.5). I expect the WIRE-3 used the same battery pairs as the HUW and WIRE-5.

On your table, on the bottom angles between the legs are brackets with holes. Are these to secure the table to the box floor? If not to secure the table, then perhaps they were to clamp a battery tray on to that mystery tray you're asking about? Maybe the tray is really stiffeners (and space for lead lined acid sumps? ..the HUW has lead sumps on its battery holders) for another, removable battery tray that clamps in place there and the studs are for alignment? The HUW table (with the No.5 panel), battery pairs, operator seats and chorehorse were all "quick release" removable so a complete station could be set up remotely from the vehicle. Is this feature duplicated in the WIRE-3?

As for the terminal strips being on those wooden rails on the top lips of the box...perhaps...but only if the batteries are somehow stowed in the rear of the box or just under the rails. Are there pairs of holes on the front wall of the box forward of the table for terminal strips?

Pics of HUW table with terminals trips and HUW battery trays attached.
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2009_0414chevbruce0079.jpg   huwafter-inside-1.jpg  
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Old 20-05-17, 16:06
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Do you know what the distance between the holes on the terminal strips are? I'm wondering if they were mounted on the wood boards. If you look at post #9 drawing number 1 I've shown the wood board that is mounted to the top bows. The hole centres are 5" apart. Each side has two sets. That would give the truck 4 terminal strips. The wood boards acted as a lower frame for holding the top bows together when setup as a ground station. See the picture for the holes (with bolts/nuts) on the wood. You can also just make out the charging board on the extreme left.

The bottom angle brackets on the table were simply for mounting the table to the floor. Those knobs I was looking for pass through the angles and go into bolts welded on the underside of the floor.
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Old 20-05-17, 17:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Do you know what the distance between the holes on the terminal strips are? I'm wondering if they were mounted on the wood boards. If you look at post #9 drawing number 1 I've shown the wood board that is mounted to the top bows. The hole centres are 5" apart. Each side has two sets. That would give the truck 4 terminal strips. The wood boards acted as a lower frame for holding the top bows together when setup as a ground station. See the picture for the holes (with bolts/nuts) on the wood. You can also just make out the charging board on the extreme left.

The bottom angle brackets on the table were simply for mounting the table to the floor. Those knobs I was looking for pass through the angles and go into bolts welded on the underside of the floor.
The mounting holes for the bakelite strips are 4-15/16" apart on metal brackets stepped out from the 18ga. steel wall.
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Old 20-05-17, 17:48
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So I would say that those holes are infact for the terminal strips. It makes sense then that they are mounted to the framework and not the actual box. The way when setting up for a ground station everything stays in place on the frames.
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Old 20-05-17, 18:08
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Quote:
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So I would say that those holes are infact for the terminal strips. It makes sense then that they are mounted to the framework and not the actual box. The way when setting up for a ground station everything stays in place on the frames.
So then the batteries would be in the bins immediately below? Two pairs on one side (if so, probably on the left to be near the C5 panel) or are there holes on either rail indicating one pair of batteries on the left and the other on the right? I'm a little reluctant to think the batteries would be enclosed in bins because of the gas they generate when being charged but perhaps I am wrong.
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Old 20-05-17, 19:17
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I'm thinking the batteries went on the floor in the space between the wheel well and the front wall. Facing the wireless table this would be to the left. And possibly two batteries to the right of table.

There is another bracket on the wireless table on the right side. It is a flat bar that goes front to back and has a long bolt with wing nut on it. It goes out horizontally. There is also a stopper plate on it. It appears like it may have a had some kind of cable reel on it. But I'm not sure if its original or added post army use. I'll post a picture shortly.
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Old 20-05-17, 19:27
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Here is the other mystery bracket.
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Old 24-05-17, 18:42
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Some more photos of the basic layout.

Another mystery is figuring out what the seat bases looked like. As you can see in the these two pictures the seats were mounted to the floor using three bolts. However these mounting points are outside of the normal CMP seat base. The manufactures part number is B340056
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There were two battery trays on the truck with the following manufactures description and part numbers.

Stand Batteries Assy, RH #C38272
Stand Batteries Assy, LH #C38273

As you can see there is a couple mounting holes on the floor. Highlighted via the red arrows. On the left side is a larger oval hole. This was for the power cable from the Chorehorse to come up to the C5 charging board. It is highlighted with the green arrow.

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Old 24-05-17, 18:56
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Here is a shot showing the power cable in the conduit. The relative position of it would suggest it is coming up via the oval hole and then connecting to the C5 charging board.

In the second picture you can just make out the battery clamp posts with wing nuts. There is two posts visible under the tables pull out drawer and then just a single one visible to the right of the table.
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Old 24-05-17, 22:34
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Jordan a C15TA uses three mounting points similar to your box. The big difference would be the foot wells on the TA making it easier to sit. The mounting tabs are welded to the seat and you will notice the rear one isn't in the center because of the hold down strap. Not sure this helps but it's an idea.
cheers,
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Old 24-05-17, 23:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Some more photos of the basic layout.

Another mystery is figuring out what the seat bases looked like. As you can see in the these two pictures the seats were mounted to the floor using three bolts. However these mounting points are outside of the normal CMP seat base. The manufactures part number is B340056

There were two battery trays on the truck with the following manufactures description and part numbers.

Stand Batteries Assy, RH #C38272
Stand Batteries Assy, LH #C38273

As you can see there is a couple mounting holes on the floor. Highlighted via the red arrows. On the left side is a larger oval hole. This was for the power cable from the Chorehorse to come up to the C5 charging board. It is highlighted with the green arrow.
Hmmm...

Are the 3-hole seat mountings the tubular variety as used in the Wire-5 truck? (See other thread in the Restoration forum.)

The tray under the table may well be intended for 4 x 6V 85AH batteries since the aerial base 'cage' on the roof is for Aerial Base No.1 which was used with Wireless Set No.11 and that used 4 x 6V 85AH batteries for the vehicle fit. The tray may have been left in place when a WS19 was fitted.

I think the long bolt sticking out of the RHS of the table frame is definitely a mounting for a drum of telephone cable. The rectangular plate probably goes against the table frame to space the drum away from the flat bar (and any irregularity of the weld) and keep any rolled edge of the drum from fouling it. What is the spindle diameter and available length of the bar? It might take Reel, Cable, No.2 as used with the early control units, or the rather later split drum (Reel, Cable, No.4?) used with assault cable No.2 and later with D10. (It's also possibly a much later addition to the table.)

Chris.
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Old 24-05-17, 23:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Now for some photos of an original Wire3 box. This box is a model 2J4. This pattern of box was originaly a knockdown style that was welded together. It featured a 1 gallon POL can holder on the back left side and two 5 gallon jerry can holders on the front corners. This box did come with the 1 gallon POL holder and I have managed to save it.

More photos will be coming over the next week as I document the individual brackets.
That last photograph (Box06) is just perfect! It's the holder for the original microphone & headgear No.1 (the type with the hook fitted to the back of the hand microphone). The top clip is for the headband or strap for the headset and the 'open box' at the bottom is to protect the microphone from bumps.



Chris.
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Old 25-05-17, 00:53
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz View Post
Are the 3-hole seat mountings the tubular variety as used in the Wire-5 truck? (See other thread in the Restoration forum.)
I don't think so. I just looked at the tube mount used to raise the seats in the Wire-5 box. They use 4 bolts in a pattern approximately 4" (wide) x 11" (front-back of seat) for mounting to the floor.
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Old 26-05-17, 05:50
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A big thank you goes out to another MLU'er for unearthing the following original documents dealing with the Wire-3. These were a packing slip/inventory of one of the boxes being shipped from Brantford Coach and Body.

It is believed that most of these part numbers were Brantford Coach and Body numbers and hence don't match up to any GM #'s

Obviously I would love to positively identify all of these parts. Some in particular are the seat mounting brackets and the type of hurricane lamp and its mounting bracket.
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Old 26-05-17, 05:51
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There were also two sheets on the tools shipped with the truck.
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Old 26-05-17, 06:02
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Barry, thanks for the info on how the seats were mounted in the C15Ta. Im not sure this is how the Wire-3 had them though. When I tried out my seats in the box the other night, they seemed to match up to the wheel well height pretty closely while mounted on the original seat sliders. I have been told the seat mounts appeared similar to the 8cwt wireless truck seat mounts.

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Chris, your point about the tray under the table possibly being for another wireless set is very good. The table tops have a variety of different mounting holes and I believe it was intended that this truck could carry the WS9, WS11 and WS19 radios.


I tried out the two cable reels I have and they both fit perfectly on the threaded rod. The rod is 1/2" diameter carriage bolt. Im not sure if this was added by the end user or came from the factory. You can see that the smaller diameter reel does slid around on the rod. If this was in fact what it was for, Im wondering if a compression spring was on the rod between the mounting bar and the square plate. This would keep it away from hitting the bar.
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reel01.jpg   reel02.jpg   reel03.jpg   reel04.jpg  
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