Points vs Electronic ignition and Pulley timing mark

[Mark Towers]

Hi,

I'm currently running a Lucas distributor on my F60 LAAT. I'm considering purchasing an electronic crab distributor.

Question 1 ...... Can any one tell me the pros and cons of an electric dizzy

Question 2........ I believe my timing may be out a little, I'm looking for timing Marks to use a strobe timing aid .... I found a distinctive groove on the rear pulley wheel on the double pulley this morning ... the middle and front pulley wheels don't have the distinctive groove on them ... only the rear . Is this a timing mark or just a large chip ?

I appreciate any advise

Kind regards

Mark

[Lynn Eades]

Mark, What state is your Lucas distributor in?
The hard bit to find seems to be the rotor.
I am told they are good distributors. The two sets of points are common with other early Lucas distributors.
Put a timing light on it as it is and check that the advance mechanism is working.
The British distributor is set up on a timing jig like the two American ones, so normally no timing mark.
Someone may have put a timing mark on it. If they did it must line up with something. (a pointer of some sort)
This is best set up when the heads are off. (TDC can be established when the two front pistons are equi distant down the bores)
There are calibrated timing marks (2 degree increments???) on the (Lucas/ British)distributor body at the mounting face, and hopefully an index mark on the timing cover.
Unlike the American distributor, you can rotate the Lucas one as it has slotted mounting holes.
You maybe be able to buy a module to fit your distributor?
Whatever type dizzy you use, you will need a suitable module to match your voltage (12?) and polarity (-ive or +ive earth)
I recommend you buy a coil that matches the module. (correct resistance)
I also recommend you buy set of resistor leads to suit (you are not supposed to use copper) (I bought leads with spiral wound stainless)
The advantage of the crab would be the room to work in.
A timing cover change will be required.
The Ford v8 comes with two different cam shafts early is long nosed and late is short nosed. There are adapters available for between the cam and dist. drive, and also to space the dist. body out.
I cannot remember if the British distributor is long or short, so you might need an adapter?
Last thing I can think of is that there are subtle differences in the HT conduits for each distributor type. (two leads cross over the top of the engine with the crab)
War time fuel was 68 octane it is now 91 to 98. Timing settings are not the same any more.
That lot should give you a bit to think about.

[jack neville]

I have a Lucas distributor on my Fordson WOT 2H. I fitted an extronic module from Jolley Engineering. Wasn't cheap at the time, not sure of his current price, but starts better and runs much smoother. Basically set and forget.
All my other Sidevalves have been fitted. Takes one hassle out of old motoring is how I look at it.

[Mark Towers]

Umm definitely food for thought Lynn. You have a great knowledge of these engines :-)
My Lucas dizzy is in reasonable shape ... I replaced the rotor arm early this year after the rotor arm failed..., and replaced the cap the year before .... I've never touched the points though (set the points) as I don't have a jig and I'm not very confident with points.

Yes it seems that modern fuel is becoming a real issue for our hobby !

Jack... glad to hear your running te same distributor too .... I've never seen another so far ! Only Crab type... I will see how much Jolly are doing module kits ... I'm very tempted to go down that route as I'm not confident with point gaps and dwell angels :-0

Many thanks,

Mark

[Lynn Eades]

Mark, to clarify:
You could pull your dizzy out and take it to an auto electrician with a distributor graph. He can run up your dizzy and set the dwell (points gaps) for you. From this process you will then know that everything in the distributor is working as it should. Then you re-install it back to the timing marks you pulled it out at.
The Churchill (British Ford) jigs main purpose is to set the dwell on the two sets of points (as are the jigs for the other types of dizzys) They also pre-set the timing but this can be altered.

[Mark Towers]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Mark, to clarify:
You could pull your dizzy out and take it to an auto electrician with a distributor graph. He can run up your dizzy and set the dwell (points gaps) for you. From this process you will then know that everything in the distributor is working as it should. Then you re-install it back to the timing marks you pulled it out at.
The Churchill (British Ford) jigs main purpose is to set the dwell on the two sets of points (as are the jigs for the other types of dizzys) They also pre-set the timing but this can be altered.

Superb idea Lynn... I will do exactly that ... I didn't realise such a thing as distributor graph existed. Thanks for the helpful tip !

By the way .... Is it possible for an inlet and exhaust valve to both be stuck closed on the same cylinder? Cylinder number 2 is missing on my engine and I've conducted a pressure test and noted 95psi across all 8 cylinders. I was expecting a low or zero psi on that cylinder ? But it's ok for pressure .. Spark is strong ... I've swapped spark plugs around ... and I'm not sure what do do next

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mark Towers

By the way .... Is it possible for an inlet and exhaust valve to both be stuck closed on the same cylinder? :

Mark,
The valves would be stuck open, not closed, as the cam pushes them open but spring cannot return them.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Mark

Have you tried shorting out one plug at a time to see if you can find the one that doesn't make the engine change beat?

Even compression across all the cylinders would normally indicate cylinders and valves are not the cause of the problem.

The only exception to a valve sticking on closed on a flat heads that I can think of is with the flat heads have hydraulic lifters. My 49 Lincoln has a big flat head that has hydraulic lifters but the truck version of the same engine has solid lifters.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Cheers Phil

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

The only exception to a valve sticking on closed on a flat heads that I can think of is with the flat heads have hydraulic lifters. My 49 Lincoln has a big flat head that has hydraulic lifters but the truck version of the same engine has solid lifters.

Hi Phil,
I have been dismantling a Cadillac V8 today, probably been standing for 60years, this has hydraulic lifters and turning the cam over, it still lifts the valves open and shut with no oil pressure.

regards, Richard

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Richard

You are correct the hydraulic lifters would still have to open the valves even when completely compressed or you would never be able to start and engine that had never had oil in it or had sat for a long time.

Cheers Phil