Mystery Arty Tractor

[Dennis Cardy]

Looking for some help identifying this truck.

Lot 447…At the legendary Ernie's airplane auction..
Tillsonburg Ontario….5 Sept 1970.

While everyone was off buying airplanes…farm tractors.. and motorcycles…….this rusty wreck...languished in the background.

Did a bit of research….surprised to find….possibly... a very historic vehicle.

Looking at the cab ...and what we can see of the rear drive train

Appears to be Ford sheet metal and a very early example of the suspension system used on the famous WW2 American half-tracks…

So...Marmon Harrington …?

Could it…might it.. been part of the pre-war experimental Gun Tractor trials in Shilo..??


1) Anyone out Shilo way have any info on this.…? What is an 18 pdr..

2) Anyone know where Lot 447 ended up.?

[rob love]

18pr was the standard howitzer for WW1, and in the 1930s received the Martin-Perry rubber tire conversion. They were training guns at the beginning of the war.

I think the same truck may be shown on p27 of blueprint for victory as bought by an Ontario collector at auction in 1970.

[Bob Phillips]

I believe it was bought by Ford collector Phil Gravelle, currently restored and at the war museum, Ottawa.

[Stew Robertson]

I do not think they are the same truck
back when Bill Gregg was collecting he had a military vehicle drive through the area and one of those trucks showed up and made the trip through the trails
From my recollection the vehicle was from the Milton area and was pulled from a barn and was in dire need of repairs but was running but had no rear box just the half track suspension

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

I do not think they are the same truck
back when Bill Gregg was collecting he had a military vehicle drive through the area and one of those trucks showed up and made the trip through the trails
From my recollection the vehicle was from the Milton area and was pulled from a barn and was in dire need of repairs but was running but had no rear box just the half track suspension

I recall that too...vaguely. Did that vehicle have this type of rear suspension or a 'cardon-loyd' type resembling a bren carrier?

[Dennis Cardy]

Thanks to all for input and suggestions.

Went on CWM website. Came up with this.
Part of their collection..

Not much info..but they call it a Model 51 Innes-Cunningham/Ford.
Never heard of I.C.
Were they a competitor to MH..?

Said to be a pioneering Canadian Artillery Tractor.
According to Museum..Tested by RCA..PPCLI and Queens Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada.

I wonder if this is the same truck from the auction..?

At the same time …given it's recorded use by the Artillery…still a possibility it was part of the Shilo trials.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Difficult to say for sure with grainy photographs but I'm starting to think yes.

Originally Posted by Dennis Cardy

Thanks to all for input and suggestions.

Went on CWM website. Came up with this.
Part of their collection..

Not much info..but they call it a Model 51 Innes-Cunningham/Ford.
Never heard of I.C.
Were they a competitor to MH..?

Said to be a pioneering Canadian Artillery Tractor.
According to Museum..Tested by RCA..PPCLI and Queens Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada.

I wonder if this is the same truck from the auction..?

At the same time …given it's recorded use by the Artillery…still a possibility it was part of the Shilo trials.

[Dennis Cardy]

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9289

Good old MLU. Taking a hint from Rob Love and others…found this.

From the Gregg book photo and information about it being bought at an auction....little doubt it's the same vehicle.

Very nice to know it was saved.

Thanks for all your help.

Dennis.

[Bob Phillips]

so after a couple of phone calls and rooting to find the auction list from 1970..
Ford halftrack bought by Phil Gravelle of Scotland Ontario. Phil was a well known Ford collector who ran a garage in Scotland. Before he sold the business his yard was full of Ford rarities including 2x Ford marmon harrington 4x4 snow fighters, 2x MH 6x6 chassis and one complete truck.
Painted on the door of the 36 half track was its military ID number, 36-1-106, with later stencilling which included CD, NF, Military District 1, and a much later number 55-868. The tracks were built by Innes Cunningham of Rochester NY,
Phil restored it after much research and painted it gloss commercial green of that era.
Curiously the auction list identifies lot447 as an Yale trainer airplane but also says all trucks were sold in the sale on Saturday same day as the airplanes. Not sure why they would have the same numbers?? BP

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

***Hijack Alert***

Here's some period pics of the infamous auction:

[Bob Phillips]

Bruce- fabulous pictures- who has someother pictures of the amazing event?

[rob love]

http://www.spitcrazy.com/Simmons-2.htm

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

http://www.spitcrazy.com/Simmons-2.htm

Oh...oh...

I too have a garage full of old junk, am sour towards strangers poking about in my yard and don't like government permits much...

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by rob love

http://www.spitcrazy.com/Simmons-2.htm

Thanks for posting that link Rob. Very interesting story!!

[Dennis Cardy]

As some of you may or may not know, Bill Gregg also collected aircraft. Including a Yale or two from the auction.

Yale 3350 is now at the Canadian Warplane Heritage museum at Hamilton Ontario.

http://www.warplane.com/aircraft/col...?aircraftId=34

[Les Fisher]

Many years ago I was employed by the War Museum to take a look at this haftrack during its restoration to see how well it was going. The person restoring it was needing more money and they wanted to just make sure it was almost complete. Very rear !

[Frank v R]

Bruce where did the photos you posted come from? I was there for the auction,

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Frank v R

Bruce where did the photos you posted come from? I was there for the auction,

They came from a co-worker's family album. I'm pretty certain that's him in the black shorts in the top left pic (50 odd years hasn't changed him a bit).

Here's the last of the set. I'm a little disappointed there aren't any with vehicles in them.

[Dave Mills]

Hello Bruce, we visited a fantastic display of aircraft and touchy feely displays on Canada 150 Day. Highly recommended that you place it on your bucket list if ever in BC Canada. The Bi-plane is from the museum and was flying around for the celebrations, the pilots just loved a chat. Is the yellow machine with my thumb print in the shot the same model as the one earlier in the thread?

Cheers,

Dave.

[David Dunlop]

I seem to recall a Yale at Bill Gregg's place during the conference, along with his Moth.

Were some, or all of these Yales originally intended for service with the French Air Force, but not delivered before the fall of France. Subsequently absorbed by the RCAF for wartime training for a while? A classmate of mine in University in the late 70's had a neighbour in Morden with a Yale on his property.

They seem to have been pushed aside rather quickly when Harvard production ramped up.

David

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Dave Mills

Hello Bruce, we visited a fantastic display of aircraft and touchy feely displays on Canada 150 Day. Highly recommended that you place it on your bucket list if ever in BC Canada. The Bi-plane is from the museum and was flying around for the celebrations, the pilots just loved a chat. Is the yellow machine with my thumb print in the shot the same model as the one earlier in the thread?

Cheers,

Dave.

Certainly sounds like a to-do visit. Another one for vintage aircraft fans is the museum at CFB Trenton here in Ontario. There are some rather weathered aircraft outside (but you can get right up close to them) and of course there is their spectacularly restored Halifax bomber.

I'm betting that yellow birds is a Harvard instead of a Yale based on the large intake scoop on the left front. The big giveaway (you can't see in your pic) is that Yales have fixed undercarriages and Harvards retract.

[Dennis Cardy]

Yes, The Yales and the Harvards are very similar looking. And yes the easiest way to tell them apart is that the Yale has fixed landing gear.
Looking more closely, the Yales have a somewhat crude square carb air intake on the top of the engine cowing whereas the Harvard's have a more refined version on the side.

[Dennis Cardy]

Dr. Gregg's Tiger Moth at his farm…and last year under new ownership near Saskatoon.

[Dennis Cardy]

Dave,
That's CF-GME a 1941 Mk IIB Harvard. Seen just to the north of Langley airport.

[Dennis Cardy]

Dave…(and other forum members)….

A blatant plug for the little volunteer-run aviation museum that you visited in Langley.

That red-nosed biplane you took pictures of… had just landed back only a few days earlier…...thanks to an RCAF Globe Master II…

from the Vimy celebrations over in France…

Hand built in their hanger over a period of many month's

http://www.canadianflight.org/content/press

Will pass-on your kind comments

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Is that a 3/4 scale machine?

Originally Posted by Dennis Cardy

Dave…(and other forum members)….

A blatant plug for the little volunteer-run aviation museum that you visited in Langley.

That red-nosed biplane you took pictures of… had just landed back only a few days earlier…...thanks to an RCAF Globe Master II…

from the Vimy celebrations over in France…

Hand built in their hanger over a period of many month's

http://www.canadianflight.org/content/press

Will pass-on your kind comments

[Dennis Cardy]

Bruce,
One of the volunteers told me it was 7/8. Another volunteer said no…it's full scale.

It's a fairly faithful replica…but using modern materials and construction methods.
In this case they went with a 115 hp Lycoming…flat four aircraft engine…in place of the original Rotary.

To remove any doubt of what scale it is...…here's a link to a brief video from the manufacturer..

https://vimeo.com/112241285

The video says it takes the average pilot/builder about two years to get into the air…Which seems honest.

With the museum and the volunteer building team fully engaged in the project..…It took them about a year..