Wartime T16 pictures (#2)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

T16 Universal Carrier of the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry at the Bossestraat road, Woensdrecht, The Netherlands, 16 October 1944.

Then & now photos:




Source:

[Bob Phillips]

Can anyone tell me the purpose of the small rectangular metal plates, with tapped holes in them, that are situated along the top of the sides and on the front armor as clearly seen in posts 7 & 8?

[Ed Storey]

They are the mounts for the wading equipment panels.

[Bob Phillips]

Thanks Ed for that information, can you direct me to a photo of a vehicle with that wading equipment attached?

[Stewart Loy]

Bob,

I just happened to have some pix from the internet of Carriers with wading equipment.

Stewart

[Bob Phillips]

Perfect, thank you very much!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

“American-born members of Support Company, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, South Beveland, Netherlands, 30 September 1944.“




Steve Guthrie noted:

Either the date or the location is wrong. On September 30 the war diary notes that the Watch was still in Belgium. They fought around Antwerp for a few more days and then had to fight to open the "neck" of the Beveland isthmus and claw their way into South Beveland.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

“American-born members of Support Company, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, South Beveland, Netherlands, 30 September 1944.“

Not meaning to through doubt on anything, but I think the confusion between the caption for the photo and the war diary may be because I don't think the troops or carrier in the photo are from the Black Watch of Canada. The shoulder patch visible on the the Sergeant to the right is of the wrong shape and there would be no reason to have a Roman numeral XII on the front plate.

But I always am willing to admit that I could be wrong.

[Dave Newcomb]

In my father's written memoirs [Captain- company CO in Patton's 3rd army]. His unit was absolutely forbidden to enter an abandoned town. A commonwealth unit in carriers passed them and went into the town for the evening. That night a large allied air bombing run was made on that town. Dad said it was a sad sight, next day, of carriers blown into houses, even into the second story. Italian campaign. I haven't found his written memoirs yet. Dave N

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

Not meaning to through doubt on anything, but I think the confusion between the caption for the photo and the war diary may be because I don't think the troops or carrier in the photo are from the Black Watch of Canada. The shoulder patch visible on the the Sergeant to the right is of the wrong shape and there would be no reason to have a Roman numeral XII on the front plate.

But I always am willing to admit that I could be wrong.

I agree with Dan's assessment that the badges worn in the photograph do not appear to be the 'barrel shape' used on the shoulder badges of the various 2nd Canadian Infantry Division infantry regiments. Unfortunately the resolution of the image is too low to make an accurate investigation of the badge. I also thought the the Roman numeral XII on the front plate was a vehicle tactical marking and not something directly linked to a specific regiment. The real problem is that determining the facts behind this photograph is little more than educated guessing without any context information. If this is a LAC photograph, then knowing the PA number would be a good start.

[Colin Alford]

Ed,

It appears that the PA number is PA-168677

This link will hopefully take you to 10 images with the date of 30 September 1944: https://recherche-collection-search....d&OnlineCode=1

For someone with better knowledge/ reference material, the reported units and locations may help to determine if the reported dates are correct.

Edit: It looks like the link is providing more than the ten results.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Gents,

Thanks for picking through this. I must admit that I merely posted the photo with the caption provided, plus one relevant response by Steve Guthrie.

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

It appears that the PA number is PA-168677
*snip*
For someone with better knowledge/ reference material, the reported units and locations may help to determine if the reported dates are correct.

Colin has provided the link to the source material in the archives: https://recherche-collection-search....Number=3230698

While the unit may be wrongly attributed to this photo, the "American-born members" are named as: "(L-R): Private R.F. Gallahan, Sergeants F.J. Garvis and A. McGrail". This may be a lead to find out the unit they served in.

[Alex van de Wetering]

T16 in Caen, Normandie

source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/moogk/...7696364296761/

(lovely research by Michel Le Querrec, by the way!)

[Jordan Baker]

I believe the red arrow is pointing to the unit shoulder title and the blue arrow is pointing to the division patch. Does that change your assessment?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

T16 in Caen, Normandie

source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/moogk/...7696364296761/

(lovely research by Michel Le Querrec, by the way!)

More photos of this bridge at: https://web.archive.org/web/20220401...juillet%201944 (go down about 1/3rd of the page. The entrance walls on the south bank are distinctive.)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

“A Universal Carrier of The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa (M.G.) passing through Holten, Netherlands, 9 April 1945.”

[Keith Brooker]

Sorry if there not T16 carriers. All photos are from my collection. The first 4 are taken from the original negatives. A few are of MTC drivers. And the last with a Humber taken in 1945 Europe.

[Michael R.]

.

Originally Posted by edstorey

I suspect that the photograph is of infantry carriers as a reconnaissance regiment would not have had towed anti-tank guns in its establishment.

.

The Canadian discussion during 1943/1944, of universal carriers being adapted to tow Ordnance QF 6-pounder and Trailer, 10-Cwt, produced an estimate of towing hooks required. As indicated in the following estimate, November, 1944: Recce Regts had a requirement for either 12 or 18 towing attachments each, for their 6pr A Tk establishment.

Ed, I imagine there will be supporting detail to indicate the actual deployment of the 6pr with these two Recce Regts in the N.W.E. theatre? At present, an image of a Cdn Recce Regt universal carrier deployed, ‘44/‘45 towing a 6pr in N.W.E. is elusive.

.

[Jakko Westerbeke]

I came across these in the picture archive of Stichting Oud Meppel:


source


source


source


source


source

There are also pictures of other Canadian vehicles in there, such as Ram Kangaroos, a Ram ARV, and Archer SP guns.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"British / Canadian / Polish Forces advance in Normandy during "Operation Goodwood" - July 1944

LIFE Magazine Archives - George Rodger Photographer"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"3rd Canadian Division T16 Universal Carrier towing an Ordnance QF 6-pounder anti-tank gun across a pontoon bridge in Caen at Venelle de l'Orne - July 1944
Thanks José-Daniel Cabanilles for his assistance
LIFE Magazine Archives - Ralph Morse Photographer"

[Lynn Eades]

Back in the thread on 13/11/23 Keith Brooker posted some photos. The first one is of T8523 which was a U.C. Mk.I built by Thornycroft. It was a very early MkI modified to MkII. I say very early as it is from (numerically) the first contract let for U.Cs. (T6868) References from Nigel Watsons Vol one. The 103rd of that contract, btw.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Personnel of the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry riding in T16 Universal Carrier
27 Oct. 1944 / Krabbendijke, Netherlands.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

April 1945: crossing the Schipbeek Canal near Markelo, the Netherlands.

Who can identify the unit?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Hanno, those are neat pontoon rafts. The vehicle could belong to anybody, but I think the raft was operated by Engineers.

[Ed Storey]

Those neat pontoon rafts were part of the Folding Boat Equipment and they were indeed operated by Engineers.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Hanno, those are neat pontoon rafts. The vehicle could belong to anybody, but I think the raft was operated by Engineers.

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Those neat pontoon rafts were part of the Folding Boat Equipment and they were indeed operated by Engineers.

Brave men to carry a heavy armoured vehicle across a canal on wood & canvas boats (must say I have been influenced by the scene in A Bridge Too Far).

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Canadian T16 Carrier T95793 guiding prisoners of war.
Location: Kruisweg road, Hoofddorp, The Netherlands.
Date: ca. 8 May 1945.



Source: https://hdl.handle.net/21.12102/1F49...FDCA59A89CCC2A