M8 Greyhound in Australia.

[Ryan]

Come across a possible photo of one in Oz during WW2. Pretty sure we never used them but did we have a few for test purposes?
It's the lower picture in this ebay auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/War-Photos-x-...3A1%7C294%3A50

[gjamo]

Why not buy the real thing. Item # 320367985168

Here is the link, I hope
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...dc=1&viewitem=
US$20,000 Reserve not met
Rich

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by gjamo

Why not buy the real thing?

Because of all the attention you'd attract!

[Douglas Greville]

Fellas

That Greyhound on ebay is a mongrel.
- It has what appears to be a Gamma Goat engine in it (Detroit Diesel 3/53). Owner says it is a "453" which is unlikely. The alternator would have come with the donk. It should have a JXD Hercules (Studebaker 6x6, White Scout).
- It appears they have cut a hole through the side of the hull for
the exhaust (a Greyhound's starts on the LHS and goes across under the
engine where the muffler is
located then up and out through the rear RHS mudguard panel).
- A ~6" extension collar has been fitted around the engine bay to take the
extra height of the retrofit motor but it appears they have kept all parts
and reinstalled them such as engine louvre decking.
- Breech has been cut off and the shell deflector and side guards are missing,
although owner says he has replacement breech.
- It is hard to tell, but it appears that the fuel tank is not insitu, which would
suggest either a jerry rigged fuel system or none at all.
- The binnage on the front face of the firewall are all missing.
- No picture of the large capacity shell rack that should be in the sponson.
- Extension mudguards missing, however this is not that unusual and many
owners take them off to reduce the width of the vehicle - the
owner says he still has them.

+ On the plus side, those data plates look old, originals perhaps?
+ RHS rear panel does not have cutout for exhaust, which suggests this
was a very early build vehicle.

As to Oz use of Greyhounds. General opinion is that there was at least one Aussie unit in Europe that had Greyhounds on some sort of loan basis, which could have been either British inventory or even direct from US stocks.
It would be nice to be able to find out the details of which unit this was?
Nobody appears to know of any actually purchased by the Australian government.

Regards
Doug
M8 Owner.

[BSHEVLIN]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Because of all the attention you'd attract!

LOL that me in the Gunners seat on the way back from cooma 2008

[Ian Pullen]

As far as I believe we (Australia) didn't have any Army units serving in Europe in WW2. We served in North Africa, Crete, Greece etc but by the time the Allieds came to re-occupy Europe the only Australians in that theatre were Air Force.
All Army units were by then in the Pacific in the defence of Australia.
As for any M8s in Australian service, I can't recall any.

[Douglas Greville]

Ian

Have to disagree with you. It is a documented fact that Australian Army personnel landed on in Normandy either on or shortly after D-Day. I remember reading several first person accounts of it (many years ago) in an RSL club.

As to M8s, well, being that Australia appears not to have purchased any doesn't mean we never operated them in some sort of secondment posting. I know that officers are often posted individually on secondment, but in the case of enlisted personnel, would expect that if it happens it would be in groups, not individually? The story I was told was that it was a "Squadron".

Just as Australia is not listed as having been equipped with Chaffee, Sherman, Leo 2, FV-432, M-60: all those vehicles have been operated by Australian personnel in Australia, some vehicles remained here, others were returned at the end of the evaluation.

Strange things happen, a surprising amount never gets recorded in publically available material.

A few years ago I was talking to an RAN veteran and when I asked what ship he was on, he said "Shropshire" (IIRC). I then queried if he had been on secondment (he was a rating) and he said no, that the ship was given to Australia by the British government.
So, where as it is normal for a ship's name to be changed when it is transferred from one navy to another, in this case HMS Shropshire and HMAS Shropshire are one and the same ship.

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by Ian Pullen

As far as I believe we (Australia) didn't have any Army units serving in Europe in WW2. We served in North Africa, Crete, Greece etc but by the time the Allieds came to re-occupy Europe the only Australians in that theatre were Air Force.
All Army units were by then in the Pacific in the defence of Australia.
As for any M8s in Australian service, I can't recall any.

[Ian Pullen]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Ian

Have to disagree with you. It is a documented fact that Australian Army personnel landed on in Normandy either on or shortly after D-Day. I remember reading several first person accounts of it (many years ago) in an RSL club.

As to M8s, well, being that Australia appears not to have purchased any doesn't mean we never operated them in some sort of secondment posting. I know that officers are often posted individually on secondment, but in the case of enlisted personnel, would expect that if it happens it would be in groups, not individually? The story I was told was that it was a "Squadron".

Just as Australia is not listed as having been equipped with Chaffee, Sherman, Leo 2, FV-432, M-60: all those vehicles have been operated by Australian personnel in Australia, some vehicles remained here, others were returned at the end of the evaluation.

Strange things happen, a surprising amount never gets recorded in publically available material.

A few years ago I was talking to an RAN veteran and when I asked what ship he was on, he said "Shropshire" (IIRC). I then queried if he had been on secondment (he was a rating) and he said no, that the ship was given to Australia by the British government.
So, where as it is normal for a ship's name to be changed when it is transferred from one navy to another, in this case HMS Shropshire and HMAS Shropshire are one and the same ship.

Regards
Doug

Doug,
as for the HMS (HMAS) Shropshire, the AWM & RAN as too the HMAS Shropshire websites are quite detailed ref the "gifting"of the Shropshire after the sinking of the HMAS Canberra. Even down to what was said by Churchill about it. As for it & Greyhounds, I am still not 100% with the connection.

Yes, you are correct in that we (Aust) trialled the M60, FV 432, CVRT, M114A1, Fiat 6614, Chenoweth FAV and Sheridan. The Challenger or Leo 2 were never trialled (even against the Abrahms) and it was the Leopard 1A2 (cast turret) that was trialled back in the 70's (against the M60). These vehicles are readily listed as trials vehicles but are not classified as "operated". Operated denotes that the vehicle has been accepted and is in general service.

As for trials vehicles, they are generally a loan type vehicle therefore the vehicles generally return to the country of origin (unless accepted for service) The Shermans, Chaffee, Crusader 1 & Cromwell would have stayed probably because of the War being on at the time. (I will try & find and answer on that).

As for the Australian involvement in the European Theatre of war, I did do some chasing. What I came up with from the AWM was the fact that there were almost 3000 Australian personnel involved in the D Day landings.
There were approx only 12 Army personnel attached to British units to gain experience for proposed future landings in the Pacific region.
Approx 500 RAN personnel in ships, Corvettes, MTBs etc.
Finally there were approx 2500 RAAF personnel attached to Bomber Command and Fighter Command. The RAAF contingent had been based in England since early in the war and continued until the end of hostilities.

Fourteen Australians were killed on D Day, two RAN & 12 RAAF.

My source at the AWM could find no records of any formed Army units in Europe after D Day.
I am still looking for anything ref M8s in Australian service (trials or other) but at the time of reply couldn't find anything.
We did have over 250 Staghounds though. Some of which saw overseas deployment with BCOF.

[Douglas Greville]

> not classified as "operated". Operated denotes that the vehicle has been
> accepted and is in general service.

Ah so, a difference between a military and civilian definition.

> As for trials vehicles, they are generally a loan type vehicle

So what do you know about the fabled 4 US Halftracks that we were
supposed to have had (dunno if "operated" or just "acquired" or perhaps even "left behind"). Note that
I am NOT referring to the 16 or so imported into Oz in the late 1980s by
James S or subsequent ex-Israeli ones.

> As for the Australian involvement in the European Theatre of war, I did do > some chasing. What I came up with from the AWM was the fact that
> there were almost 3000 Australian personnel involved in the D Day landings.
> There were approx only 12 Army personnel attached to British units to gain

The articles I read were first person accounts and did not address the specifics you have discovered.

> I am still looking for anything ref M8s in Australian service (trials or other) > but at the time of reply couldn't find anything.

Please let me know if anything turns up, either proof or disproving?

I hear that the other Oz Greyhound is currently up for sale. So if you hear any rumours, it isn't my vehicle. I am surprised that it has come on the
market.

Regards
Doug

[Ian Pullen]

So what do you know about the fabled 4 US Halftracks that we were
supposed to have had (dunno if "operated" or just "acquired" or perhaps even "left behind"). Note that
I am NOT referring to the 16 or so imported into Oz in the late 1980s by
James S or subsequent ex-Israeli ones.

Doug,
as for the "borrowed" US 1/2 tracks. I have heard a couple of stories. This is the first time I have actually heard a specific number. There is nothing concrete but I enjoy turning over rocks so to speak so I will have a look.

Ref the 12 Army personnel that were involved in the D Day operations. I believe they were all officers of the rank of Major and above.

As for Aust use of M8s. If I find any more I will let you know.

I heard a while back that the other M8 may be coming on the market, just didn't know when. He may have plans there but this is not the stage.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

I hear that the other Oz Greyhound is currently up for sale. So if you hear any rumours, it isn't my vehicle. I am surprised that it has come on the
market.

Regards
Doug

Hi Doug/Ian,
I recently saw an M8 Greyhound for sale on Oz ebay, stated QLD as the location. Only lasted on ebay for a day. Started at .99cents and got to just over $3000 before it was pulled. The description stated a buy it now price of $75,000 so I assumed someone payed the amount.
Ryan

[Douglas Greville]

Originally Posted by rynoki

Hi Doug/Ian,
I recently saw an M8 Greyhound for sale on Oz ebay, stated QLD as the location. Only lasted on ebay for a day. Started at .99cents and got to just over $3000 before it was pulled. The description stated a buy it now price of $75,000 so I assumed someone payed the amount.
Ryan

Ryan

Thanks for that.

He didn't really give any details in that listing, only 1 picture.

Regards
Doug

[Douglas Greville]

Originally Posted by Ian Pullen

Doug,
as for the "borrowed" US 1/2 tracks. I have heard a couple of stories. This is the first time I have actually heard a specific number. There is nothing concrete but I enjoy turning over rocks so to speak so I will have a look.

Ref the 12 Army personnel that were involved in the D Day operations. I believe they were all officers of the rank of Major and above.

As for Aust use of M8s. If I find any more I will let you know.

I heard a while back that the other M8 may be coming on the market, just didn't know when. He may have plans there but this is not the stage.

That number was told to me nearly 30 years ago. It had its origins in the post-war surplus sales.
It was all a bit of a Holy Grail in the collecting community back then.
"Indianna Jones and the quest for the 4 halftracks".
Lots have tried to track them down, but without success.

However, I am told that there was a couple of German halftracks and possibly some Jap ones at some stage. It could well be that those vehicles
were mis-identified as the above 4.

There were some other interesting odds and sods that came out of those sales, such as the Jap tanks ( 2 x IIRC).

You will be interested to know, that I was 2 years too late to recover a
Sentinel. The owner stated "nobody was interested in it, so I sold it to Sims".
Geeez, who did you offer it to?
"Nobody asked to buy it".

So, when I told him that he had probably just got 5% on the dollar of its value he wasn't a happy farmer.

It had turret and power pack, both off the vehicle, but went with it.

Amazing that people can be so thick.

Regards
Doug

[JackM]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Ian

Have to disagree with you. It is a documented fact that Australian Army personnel landed on in Normandy either on or shortly after D-Day. I remember reading several first person accounts of it (many years ago) in an RSL club.

etc

Doug

Doug,

That rang a bell - I think you might be talking about Jo Gullett's book "Not As a Duty Only". A great read written by an Australian who served in the initial battles of the Western Desert, Greece, and New Guinea. He, along with a few others was then posted to the UK, just prior to D Day. Jo assumed the role of company commander when the original incumbent was wounded and soldiered through most of the remainder of the war in Europe.


Jack

[Douglas Greville]

Jack

Thanks for the info. I have never heard of the book you mention.

Regards
Doug

[Ryan]

and still for sale.
if only I could win tattslotto.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ww2-M8-greyho...d=p3911.c0.m14