UK Military Interwar VRNs

[Roddy de Normann]

Hi to all -

By any chance, does anyone have any info ref the issuing of civilian vehicle registration numbers to British armoured vehicles ? Why was it done, on whose decision and from when ?

Much more importantly, has anyone ever come across any archives covering the issuing of these numbers ? I belive I am right in saying that all the numbers came from those held by the County of Middlesex.

I have attempted to contact DVLA on several occaisions, but they do not bother to answer...

All the best

Roddy

[rewdco]

I have a similar question: I know that these civvy regs weren't used anymore from somewhere during 1939 onwards. I have found Norton pictures with census numbers 39 9175 and 39 58xx, both with Middlesex registrations. A BSA picture with census number 39 148xx doesn’t seem to have a civilian registration. Looks as if they stopped issuing civilian registrations around census number 39 100000. If we consider that the 1939 census numbers ran from 39 000 until 39 43989, we can assume that the civilian registrations were omitted during the spring of 1939. Didn’t find any other 39’ers with civilian registration, so I’m not 100% sure about this… Who’s got other pictures / facts to prove my theory?

Jan

[Keith Webb]

"And now it's your turn to get up off that couch and go into the deserts, go into the mountains, go under the lakes, rivers, and seas and search for history. You'll never find a more rewarding adventure!" (Clive Cussler)

Sorry if this is off topic but I fully subscribe to the sentiments Roddy uses in Clive Cussler's quote as I'm sure many of us do.

[rewdco]

Hey Keith, that's my "signature" (rewdco), not Roddy's!
A couple of years ago, there was a series on National Geographics channel which was called "The Sea Hunters". It was about shipdiving, very often on WW2 shipwrecks. Amazing what there is still to be found at the bottom of the sea! Anyway, Clive Cussler, together with James Delgado, did most of the research work before the divers jumped into the sea. And Clive always told these words at the end of each episode... How right he was...

Cheers,
Jan

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Firstly, somewhere is the statutory instrument that enabled military vehicles, WD, RAF, RN, to just use the Census Number and not require road fund licence taxation, albeit at the NIL rate. I suspect it was in the DEFENCE OF THE REALM REGULATIONS. I would go along with sometime in 1939.

The PSV Circle have huge collections of vehicle registration records and I have copies of some. There are whole sections of Middlesex allocations in the records, taken by someone who actually took the time to note them manually long ago. In some cases I know there are actual vehicles/chassis numbers against regos, others it just quotes an allocation block. The records also show WAR DEPARTMENT vehicles that were not military per se, or acquired by the WD after a civilian career. However from memory I have not yet seen any armoured vehicles listed. These may have been in the allocations that were kept under lock and key as it were under the OFFICIAL SECRETS ACT.

Has anyone ever checked at Kew to see if there is anything there? I assume that there is nothing as it would have been found by now and someone would have published the details.

[Rich Payne]

As David says, the PSV enthusiasts saved much material via the Kithead Trust who have listed whereabouts of surviving records.

http://www.kitheadtrust.org.uk/

There doesn't seem to be any later 1930s Middlesex material. The Armed forces block allocations were of course never used again after 1939 (It wouldn't work these days, some poor clerk in the MOD would have to fill in SORN (Statutory Off-road Notice) every year.

Nigel Watson's Carrier book has quite comprehensive Reg. No. / Contract listings. Does anybody know where he got them from ? Bovington springs to mind if they are not at Kew.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

It would appear that the Tax Discs on Middx-registered vehicles expired at the end of 1939...I assume that they all did or did they renew part-year? Photo evidence suggests that they did not renew but had, initially, authorities under the DRR stating that the vehicle was operated on behalf of the Crown. I would imagine that after registration was abandoned the use of the authority was dropped. That said it appears that Government vehicles used for official purposes in connection with the services still had registrations and would presumably have an authority on board, plus the tax disc with either 'NIL' or as post-war, a disc certifiying that it was being used for official purposes, with the Department named, e.g. Air Ministry.